Penetrating Rain - Advice Wanted

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by Carl Spiby, Oct 13, 2017.

  1. Carl Spiby

    Carl Spiby Member

    I own a 1996 property in the North West of England which was insulated with blown white fibre, for some time I have been suffering with damp spots on the inner leaf which has blown the plaster.

    I had an independent borescope inspection done recently and you can see the insulation has been wet (dirty white areas) there are water droplets present in the cavity. Thermal imaging was also done which showed cold spots which lined up with the areas of damage.

    I cannot claim for bad workmanship and/or for putting the wrong type of insulation into what is a westerly facing wall (that receives more than its fair share of driving rain) because although I have traced the company that did the installation, I have no documentation to back this up.

    There are also quoins around the windows which narrow the cavity to <50mm in places.

    So I'm left with a damp wall with voids in the insulation where it has become wet and slumped.

    On the exterior of the property, an outline of the blockwork can be seen through the render which I guess confirms the outer leaf is quite damp and/or the render is thin?

    I can't paint the exterior myself because the highest point is 3 stories high.

    What would be the recommended course of action?
     
  2. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Seen this before with a couple of house, insulation had slumped down to the ground,I ended up cutting out holes & using a wet n dry vac to suck out the insulation, was a simple to make good the area's.
    And put in a few air bricks to give some airflow to dry out the cavity.

    Are you covered on your house insurance for the work?
     
  3. Hi Carl.

    When was the cavity insulation installed, how do you know it was this particular company, and do you have Legal Protection on your house insurance?
     
  4. Carl Spiby

    Carl Spiby Member

    I tried to claim on my insurance but it was deemed to be wear and tear.

    It was installed when the property was built, but blown in once the property was completed, I know it was a particular company because the neighbour had them back for some remedial works.

    No legal protection on my buildings policy.
     
  5. This is not 'wear and tear'. You need to consider contacting the Insurance Ombudsman.

    1996? The company will almost certainly have records going back that far. They may try to deny it, but I understand they can be forced to disclose it under the FOI Act.

    If your insurance company is put in the situation where they will have to fork out for sorting this, I think that will focus their minds on getting the company to accept liability instead.

    If the solution is as simple as KIAB says - tho' I don't know how you can suck out sodden fibres - then that is the solution I would go for; there are some properties that just shouldn't have this type of cavity wall insulation fitted due to the prevailing weather conditions.

    I'm sure sealing and painting the house wall will help a lot - in might even cure it - but I'm not sure I like the idea of damp being held back by a layer of paint.

    Having said that, if your wall is currently BARE render and is clearly soaking up the rain, then you SHOULD have it protected. Don't be surprised if your insurance co or the insulation co first insist you sort this...

    But, if the fibres have 'slumped', they ain't going to spring back even when dry.

    Plan on having your house painted - using the best possible exterior paint (probably epoxy) - immediately after this stuff has been removed. Whether there is a modern cavity insulation that can be injected as an alternative that won't cause future issues, I dunno. If not, consider having thermal laminate board fitted on your coldest internal walls.
     
  6. Carl Spiby

    Carl Spiby Member

    The first attempt at claiming for this was back in Jan 2016, would I be able to involve the ombudsman at this stage? I've changed companies since as well.

    Fortunately I've kept the email that the loss adjuster sent regarding the rejection of the claim.

     
  7. What they say is fair enough - it's not that the walls have 'failed', but that there isn't enough protection added to it to keep the rain from penetrating - which is true.

    I was thinking more in terms of your insurance co - espec if you have LP - putting pressure on the company to sort out the issue as they are almost certainly liable (this type of cavity wall insulation shouldn't have been used in certain areas), because if they don't sort it, this will cause damage to your house.

    BUT, you need to be prepared tpo do your part too - it needs sealing and painting. (Of course you don't climb a 3 storey ladder - that's why we have painters...)

    DO YOU HAVE LP?!

    This whole issue was very topical around - ooh - 4 years ago? - and was on BBC's 'You and Yours' or other such consumer prog as well - I remember listening to it.

    I can't recall the outcome, but it was all about the realisation that some types of cavity wall insulation should never have been used in areas of strong prevailing weather conditions - most of Scotland, parts of England, etc.

    There must be tons of info on this on t'net - tho' you ideally want the 'sound' info...

    Chances are, I think, that the company is liable.

    This compacted stuff surely does have to come out, before any further protection is added to your wall (which you also must do...).
     
  8. Carl Spiby

    Carl Spiby Member

    I have no legal protection, annoyingly the guarantee for the insulation wasn't from CIGA or anything like that, but the company that manufactured the insulation, they have since changed name, but have not denied the records existence, just that they have been archived and that without more information (namely the certificate number which I don't have!) they won't be able to help further.
     
  9. That's a cop-out.

    You place a FOI request to them. I'm pretty sure they WILL comply :)

    And this isn't a normal 'warranty' issue in that the stuff 'broke' outwith the warranty period, it's that it was the wrong process to use in the first place and was almost bound to fail as a result of that choice.

    It was inherently wrong. It was 'wrong' at the point of installation.

    Do your research - try the BBC for one.
     
  10. jonathanc

    jonathanc Guest

    try building control as well - they should have records of signing off the work and therefore may know who completed it. The problem is that the company will only have liability to the person who employed them - if you were there in 1996 and got them to do the work - great. If you were not then tough, it then comes down to the survey you had when you bought the property
     
  11. Carl Spiby

    Carl Spiby Member

    I know who the house builder was but they do not have records going back that far to be able to tell me who did the insulation.

    I cheap'd out on the survey so it was pretty much a visual inspection only.
     
  12. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Definitely not wear & tear, it was a recognised fault back in the 80's 90's, & there are house still affected today, I can remember some bungalows built about 76, in early 80's they removed the brickwork to a height of 4' or so,in sections, & cleared out all the wet insulation which had settled near the bottom of the cavity.

    I did several houses mid 90's with same problem.
     

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