[Photos] Very noisy plastic pipe connections when valves are opened and closed?

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by RipGroove, Jun 10, 2017.

  1. RipGroove

    RipGroove Member

    I'm no plumber by the way. The pipes in my living room ceiling have been driving me mad for a couple of years (since I moved in), when ANY hot or cold valve is opened or closed anywhere in the house the pipes make a loud thud/squelch/bang noise.

    So today I'd finally had enough and pulled some ceiling down to have a look, I've tried holding all the these pipes and connections tight by hand but they all kind of expand and make a noise when a valve is opened and then again when its closed. I have a little more exploring to do in the ceiling but so far the cause may just be all of the connections expanding and contracting at the same time that's causing the noise. Although, the next hole I cut will get me under the en suite so maybe I'll find something noisy in there.

    Anyway, is there anyway to quieten down this lot, do I need better brand connections? Do I need to replace it for copper where I can? Or what?

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  2. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Could be just pipes catching through a tight diameter holes,expanding and contracting dosen't help either.

    Insulating the area with a glass fibre insulation where pipes run or the wrapping the pipes with felt pipe wrap could be better, & might deaden/muffle the noise.
     
  3. Wayners

    Wayners Screwfix Select

    Fit a water hammer arrestor . Cheap enough. Silicone around pipes or just blast with expanding foam to stop the knock to. Silicone would be my first choice
     
  4. Wayners

    Wayners Screwfix Select

    You were aware of a water hammer arrestor before you put holes in the ceiling? Lol
     
  5. RipGroove

    RipGroove Member

    I tried an arrester and it didn't make a damn difference, it's not a water hammer issue. It's fitted right next to the cold tap in the kitchen.
     
  6. RipGroove

    RipGroove Member

    What sort of glass fibre? And where would I put it? Just shove it around the pipes where the go through the joists?

    And what sort of felt wrap, and again should I just cover all the pipes in it?
     
  7. RipGroove

    RipGroove Member

    Here's a quick video of some of the fittings when a valve is opened and closed a few times.

     
  8. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    Few things I've noticed on the pictures:

    1) 'T' on cold supply looks close to the joist. if expansion is happening it is rubbing up against joist.
    2) Same pipe elbow. Pipe going upto room above looks tight between the noggin.

    May have to isolate section of pipe. Think you can get a stop end. Then try other taps around the house to locate the issue.

    Don't think taking up any more plasterboard is going to help. If more then it is probably best to remove the lot :eek:

    Other things, to check:

    What system is heating? i.e combi etc.

    What is the mains water pressure? If high could a pressure reducing valve help? plumbers to advise.
     
  9. RipGroove

    RipGroove Member

    Thanks, it's a combi boiler and I've already checked the water pressure coming into the house and it's already as low as a pressure reducer would reduce it to anyway.
     
    terrymac likes this.
  10. masterdiy

    masterdiy Screwfix Select

    I think Kiab is right, re insulation. What about the wool batts they are quit dense, wrapped round & well tucked in should deaden the noise.
    Try one of your holes first & see if it makes any difference. If it does then continue. If not come back & tell us.

    Those ceiling voids must act like base drums when turning off your taps!!!.

    If you have rooms above, Insulating the whole ceiling wouldn't go amiss. Help deaden any noise from upstairs or visa versa.

    PS. While your up there, fit ceiling speakers, instead of those projectile ones on the wall.
     
  11. RipGroove

    RipGroove Member

    Haha yes the noise from upstairs is awful to be honest, you can hear absolutely everything that goes on upstairs. What would i be insulating the cavities with, just normal loft insulation?

    Also the problem with just trying something on one or two holes is that the noise seems to be coming from everywhere at once, leading me to believe that any fix would only work if applied to every joint.

    A quick Google threw up Hep20 fittings, they are supposed to be pretty quiet, anyone know if that's true?
     
  12. masterdiy

    masterdiy Screwfix Select

  13. RipGroove

    RipGroove Member

  14. terrymac

    terrymac Screwfix Select

    when you say this noise happens when valves close ,are you referring to all the taps in your property ? if the pipework that is shown in pics is indicative of your whole house plumbing , it does not surprise me that you are having these issues. very little has been done to support the pipework / and joints .the fourth pic shows pipework changing direction 90 degrees ,and " in mid air ". I expect you have taps with mostly quarter turn valves / lever operated this type of tap shuts off the flow of water instantly when closed quickly ,sending shockwaves through the pipework as the kinetic energy of the water running through them is abruptly halted. water hammer is indeed a result . lots of good points made in posts above which will all help reducing noise but you really need to address the main issue first. a little test for you to carry out...slowly open any lever operated tap fully ,then close it SLOWLY.. whilst someone listens downstairs ..think you will find pipes are quiet .
     
  15. RipGroove

    RipGroove Member

    The pipes above the living room make this noise whenever ANY valve in the house is opened or closed, the pipework elsewhere seems quieter. So I'm hoping it's just the pipework above the living room that needs a little TLC. And yes, of the valves are opened or closed slowly then the pipes remain quiet.
     
  16. RipGroove

    RipGroove Member

    Would it also help then if I installed a load of noggins to clip the pipes to?
     
  17. terrymac

    terrymac Screwfix Select

    yes ,support them .add timbers and pipe clips. what other valves ,beside taps ,are you referring to? are all your taps lever operated ? the screw down type of tap closes slowly and you should consider changing. is the house a new build ?
     
  18. RipGroove

    RipGroove Member

    Al cisterns, showers and taps. Some taps are lever, some are screw down, showers are lever, all are noisy.

    House was built in 2009, I can't find any trace of building regs, never registered with Gas Safe, been arguing with NHBC for 2.5yrs, had a Surveyor round recently at a cost of £1100, he found a ton of breaches, NHBC still refuse to cooperate even though they clearly didn't carry out inspections during the build and/or sign it off.

    The conveyance solicitor I used to buy the house has admitted they were negligent with their searches by not finding any regulation issues BUT again they won't offer any financial help unless I take them to court for it.

    I have a high court judge, a Surveyor and a solicitor on my side, all of them say I have a super strong case against NHBC and the conveyance solicitor but it'll probably cost me £20000 to take them each to court, and probably take over 2yrs and even when I win I'll probably not even break even money wise let alone come out on top.

    They've advised I just take a few £1000 of my own money and just fix some of the more annoying issues with the house myself in the interest of a stress free life. So I've decided to start with the noisy pipework, which is where I am at now.

    I'm going to get a plumber round to have a quick look in a few days but for now, possible fixes look to be:

    Noggins and clips

    Some kind of pipe wrapping that I need to somewhow get around the pipe and wedge it through the holes in the joists

    Batt insulation in the cavities where the pipes are

    And any other ideas?
     
  19. RipGroove

    RipGroove Member

    Do these pipe connections just unscrew and pull out? If so are they reusable? It would make getting pipe wrap on the pipes a lot easier if I could drain the water and get some connections off.
     
  20. koolpc

    koolpc Screwfix Select

    For me, i think the holes for the pipes to go through the joists are the issue. The pipes have hardly any room to expand!! All those pipes trying to expand in those tight holes is bound to cause issues!!
     

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