Position of Isolating Switch

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by azizrasul, Aug 5, 2013.

  1. Lokkars Daisy

    Lokkars Daisy New Member

    Digger fella is talking out his jacksie
    I really do think it's a Screwfix plant aimed to breath some life into this tired forum
    I mean nobody could be so wrong on so many occasions
    however un, i think the cable to the dedicated socket must be surface or deeper than 50mm if not rcd protected
     
  2. Lectrician

    Lectrician Screwfix Select

    Perhaps they only had a B16 available at the time and thought "thats fine for a single socket" - Nothing particularly wrong with that.
     
  3. Lectrician

    Lectrician Screwfix Select

    The cable supplying the socket would need to be installed in a such a manner that RCD protection could be ommited as protection to the buried cable (cable clipped direct, trunked, steel conduit in wall, SWA etc.

    You need to consider if the socket, if sat behind the fridge, is for "General Use".  Does it *really* require labelling?

    "additional protection by means of an RCD in accordance with Regulation 415.1 shall be provided for "

    Is a socket positioned behind/above a freezer for general use?
     
  4. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Nope. There are two unused 32A in the board. They just don't understand.
     
  5. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    To comply with 411.3.3 the circuit must be labelled fridge. It is not for general use its for the fridge. If you don't label it it is for general use by default.
     
  6. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    For goodness sake DiggerB. Did you carry on and read EXCEPTION (b) in the reg. You really are a pain in the arris pal. Take some of your own medicine. Did you see that little word "or" after exception (a).

    Here is the reg in full

    411.3.3 Additional Protection

    In a.c systems, additional protection by means of an RCD in accordance with Regulation 415.1 shall be provided for:

    (i socket-outlets with a rated current not exceeding 20 A that are for use by ordinary persons and are intended for general use, and

    (ii) mobile equipment with a current rating not exceeding 32 A for use outdoors

    AN EXCEPTION TO (i IS PERMITTED FOR:

    (a) socket-outlets for use under the supervision of skilled or instructed persons, OR <---------see this little word here, DiggerB.

    (b) a specific labelled or otherwise suitably identified socket-outlet provided for a particular item of equipment.


    Subject to 522.6.102 :'(


    Message was edited by: unphased
     
  7. Lectrician

    Lectrician Screwfix Select

    A socket behind a fridge can only be expected to be used for a fridge.  A labels great, but not required.  It is certainly not for general use.  You're not going to pull the fridge out and plug your hoover or drill in.
     
  8. Whome?

    Whome? New Member

    An RCD is used for two things

    1, Protection for Socket outlets
    2, Protection for buried cables.

    These are two seperate issues, yes you can ommit RCD protection in certain instances in a domestic situation in relation to RCD Protection on socket outlets.. However Protection for burried cables is a SEPERATE issue, Unless you can satistfy 5226.101 ( i - iv + vi ) Which is rarley done in a domestic installation then 522.6.102 is applied the cable shall be protected by the means of an RCD.

    Again just becuase you can ommit an RCD for a socket outlet does not mean you can automatically ommit it for the protection of the cable.. The fact it is a socket outlet and a burried cable are two seperate issues.
     
  9. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Have you heard of prescribed zones, Whome? 522.6.101 (v). ;) Your brain seems to miss that little word at the end of paragraphs. You know, "or". Try again.

    This is quite amusing really. The regs are not really so hard to understand when you get to know them. It is amusing because people like you see so much more than what is actually there. Years and years of doing things blindly only to be found out by a little **** like me who according to silly face knows nothing. Unphased the stupid one.

    Anything else you want to throw at me?
     
  10. Whome?

    Whome? New Member

    Oh good lord.. You cant just go by one reg and think its ok..

    I'll paraphrase.. IIm sure you can reference it and read it fully..

    522.6.102 Where regulation 522.6.101 applies a cable installed in accordance with 5226.101 (v) and not complying with rest shall be provided with RCD protection.

    It doesnt matter if its in a zone or not, unless it has mechanical protection it must have RCD protection..
     
  11. Lectrician

    Lectrician Screwfix Select

    UP - This "or" is well and good.....but go on to read the proceeding reg (522.6.7)....

    **Copied from my RED regs**  Not got the green regs as a PDF.


    522.6.6 A cable concealed in a wall or partition at a depth of less than 50 mm from a surface of the wall or partition shall:
    i) incorporate an earthed metallic covering which complies with the requirements of these Regulations for a 7846, BS EN 60702-1 or BS 8436. or
    (ii) be enclosed in earthed conduit complying with BS EN 61386 and satisfying the requirements or these Regulations for a protective conductor, or
    (iii) be enclosed in earthed trunking or ducting complying with BS EN 50085 and satisfying the requirements or these Regulations for a protective conductor, or
    (iv) be mechanically protected against damage sufficient to prevent penetration of the cable by nails, screws and the like, or
    (v) be installed in a zone within 150 mm from the top of the wall or partition or within 150 mm of an angle partition of 100 mm thickness or less extends to the reverse side.


    522.6.7 Where Regulation 522.6.6 applies and the installation is not intended to be under the supervision of a characteristics specified in Regulation 415.1.1.

    A cable flushed into a solid or stud wall so the cable is less than 50mm deep in a typical domestic installation will require RCD protection weather in a 'safe' zone or not.
     
  12. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Agreed. I have learned. :)
     
  13. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Accepted. I agree.
     

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