Pricing advice..

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by thestraycat, Mar 16, 2023.

  1. thestraycat

    thestraycat Member

    Hi guys,

    I had a quick question around pricing. I'm collecting quotes and was wondering what a fair ball park figure was for the following work purely from a labour perspective. (Based in Surrey.)

    I'm currently ripping the ceiling out ready for re-plastering so the underside of the whole ceiling will be accessible for the electrician to work. The room is 5.8m x 3.8m

    1. Run 9 spotlights in the new ripped down ceiling
    2. Run a new feed for 2 new sockets to the consumer unit. The consumer unit is around 3m away from the new location of the sockets.
    3. Run 40m of 6mm armoured cable from the CU through the width of the uncovered ceiling 3.8m, around the house, through a pre-dug trench in the garden for 8m and into the garage.

    Simply looking for ballpark figures really. Understand there's a lot of variables. Can reinforce with any images needed, but looking for a rough billing of time.
     
  2. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    Surely, that is what the quotes will tell you. Those who do a site visit will be able to give you a better estimate than any keyboard warrior in here.
     
    MrDC likes this.
  3. MrDC

    MrDC Active Member

    As comlec says. Site visit needed to really estimate. Also if ceiling is bare does spark have to return to job once ceiling is boarded and skimmed to cut out for spots and install. Is the cu 4m away from sockets to install but involve drilling through a partition or stone wall to reach cu. Does cu have enough spare ways to run new sockets etc.

    Cant get a quote without seeing the job.

    Pricing is a nightmare even when I can see the job. Materials fluctuate in price as frequently as the UK changes prime ministers at the moment.

    Get someone out and pick the best spark, not necessarily the cheapest quote.
     
  4. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    The subject of quotes came up today down the wholesalers, it seems most of us independents no longer do them! certainly round here, it seems to now work, this is my day rate, estimate 2 days, materials cost what they cost, thats that.

    There is currently such high demand for our services that customers who want a fixed price just have to look elsewhere, even the local council have stopped asking me to quote, they just say whats needed and settle the bill.

    Times they are a changing, and personally I don't miss it, now 8 months since I wrote out a quote - long may that continue.

    I did have a school in Southampton get in touch last week, they wanted a quote, I said £1000, they said WHAAAT, I said if you want an estimate, around £200 labour £100 materials, if you want a quote, its a grand - they've gone with the estimate approach!
     
    Rosso, Alan22 and Paco de Lucia like this.
  5. thestraycat

    thestraycat Member

    @Comlec - Yeah, i've had a quote done, it's a little high and thought id ask on here to get a rough ballpark figure to compare to, not looking for anyone to price up my personal job as i've not uploaded any pics/videos of the job and it would be impossible. But for example,

    "if there were no obstacles, and no ceiling in a 5.8 x 3.6m room and i asked to have 9 spots fitted, what would you charge" or
    "If i asked you to run 2 sockets, and i'd prechased the walls, and you just hard to run the cable through an already ripped down ceiling and were 3m from the consumer unit which you had access to, what would you charge etc..."
     
  6. thestraycat

    thestraycat Member

    @MrDC - i hear you. But for example some sparkys price per spot light, some will quote hourly, some half or full days rate, some will just throw a fixed rate. Interested to hear what the pricing estimates would be based on the limited information i've given. I'm providing all materials so i'm only looking for ballpark figures on labour really based on their being no real obstacles as walls will be prechased, ceiling will be removed etc (in terms of access it's as good as it gets really) As i mentioned prior i know their are a thousand variables, and i know one wall can change everything, but what i'm trying to understand is with no obstacles, what is a fair labour charge for the work i detailed in the orginal post. Just curious.

    For example do you think £400 for only labour is a fair price, to drill 3 holes (in 3 joists of a ripped out ceiling that you had full access to) to get a 6mm cable to the gounrd level, outside of the house and then walk that cable 9m round the oustide of the house clipping it low to the wall then laying it it loose in the garden for the time being, poking it through an existing hole in a garage wall and wiring it into a little garage consumer unit that was provided for you? I feel i could have it done in 3 hours. £400 is what i've been quoted for that piece of work which is over a days rate for many it seems... so that quote seems high to me, happy to be wrong just trying to understand what others think.
     
  7. thestraycat

    thestraycat Member

    @Tony Goddard - Should i ask for an estimate as opposed to a quote then do you think and just roll with the job? Afterall everythings ripped out and pre-chased...
     
  8. thestraycat

    thestraycat Member

    In other news... what LED spotlights do you guys swear by these days? :)
     
  9. MrDC

    MrDC Active Member

    Don't feel attacked, but I am about to disagree with you. I just don't mean it to be taken as a slant on you.
    I hear what you're saying and you're valid in that what you describe is simple.

    However, I wouldn't run a 6mm cable close to the ground for any substantial length and then leave it loosely coiled on a garden for any amount of money.

    Cat wire system out of reach or swa buried underground.

    Also you aren't paying a spark to drill 3 holes in a joist. You're paying a spark to determine if potential cable runs are viable and well routed.

    Still sounds like I'm making a return visit to sink the spots after ceiling is done next week so two trips and two loads of fuel.

    You'll change your mind about the chrome vs brushed steel so I have an extra trip to the wholesaler on top.

    Nobody told me about the cavity wall insulation. Drilling 2 courses of brick is now an impossible cable feed nightmare of polystyrene and under quoting.

    Plus whatever length of time it takes me to do your job... In order to take it on (even for half a day) it takes into account all those things I just said and then covers the fall out of negating me doing that big 4 week rewire I would otherwise have started but have now pushed in order to quote to do your job sooner.

    Factors no customer considers which affect my bottom line. You've supplied all materials so I have no mark up on parts I can source and I'm now also resigned to fitting some brand I may be experienced in fitting and know its a sub par brand or has awkwardly placed terminals which add 10mins onto each socket install.

    You've obviously done a lot of prep. Kudos to you. I wish all customers did. But there's a lot more to sparking than drilling a hole and pulling cable.

    It's knowing how to make a sincere wage doing something which when done poorly can be a threat to your life or become a fire hazard.

    Bargains don't exist when you're contemplating good electrical work.

    I'd want £200/day plus mileage, and a feasible mark up on materials I know and trust to be good.

    So maybe £220 take home.

    In exchange I'll tell you what daft **** I won't do. Like fit a live 6mm cable laid bare on your garden, and charge you for the 3 days it may take to finally get done what you hope will be done in 6 hrs.
     
    Paco de Lucia likes this.
  10. MrDC

    MrDC Active Member

    Sorry Stray.
    It sounds Vicious. It isn't meant to.
    It's just the harsh reality of a job.
    I'd quote 3 days hoping for 2.

    I don't know if you've dug a trench suitable.

    I don't know you. So all I can bank on is... Imagine (forgive my jaded pessimism) your prep isn't up to my standards.

    So I quote for every step having to do it myself and right.

    I've quoted a few jobs in my time. Heard no reply. Then been called out to rectify a bad job later on. So I now presume the worst, quote for it, and shave money off if it goes to plan.

    People say nothing is certain other than death and taxes.

    I say the only certainties are death, taxes and having to explain why the problems I forsee will come to light to my customers.

    Not because I'm greedy, I never make enough to warrent the effort I put in, but just because there's no such thing as a simple job.
     
  11. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    So the quotes for your job in your area at your time - is the ballpark figure. (The range of quotes)
    What you have, is an issue with is the 'perceived value' in the exchange. That is, you think the 'price' is too high.
    Each quote (price) you have received will more than likely have been calculated using a cost plus method. The electrician has taken into all of the costs involved and added a profit margin.
    You can always challenge the quote, many do, to see if there is any flexibility on price. But as others have said the trade has plenty work at the moment so you might just get the standard answer - take it or leave it.
     
  12. sparko69

    sparko69 Screwfix Select

    You need to remember that the installation of the accessories is just 1 part of the job for the electrician.
    Installation comes after the install has been designed.
    Final testing and certification comes after the installation is completed.
    Some electricians may be happy to quote for just the installation and testing but others will quote for the whole job from design through to testing.
     
  13. thestraycat

    thestraycat Member

    @MrDC - Sorry other-halfs birthday weekend... Thanks for the long post, i've broken it down a bit. It's probably worth noting that the electrician who has quoted me has done multiple pieces of work with me, understands my prep, has since and worked in the house, and recently popped round to view the job.

    Don't feel attacked, but I am about to disagree with you. I just don't mean it to be taken as a slant on you.
    I hear what you're saying and you're valid in that what you describe is simple.

    >> I'm a certified big boy now. I'll be ok :)

    However, I wouldn't run a 6mm cable close to the ground for any substantial length and then leave it loosely coiled on a garden for any amount of money.

    Cat wire system out of reach or swa buried underground.

    Also you aren't paying a spark to drill 3 holes in a joist. You're paying a spark to determine if potential cable runs are viable and well routed.

    >> Since the ceiling has been done, we've have already walked the whole route of the work. So the quote i have recieved is not to cover abnormal issues, it's priced on being able to see the whole route of the cable from CU to garage.

    Still sounds like I'm making a return visit to sink the spots after ceiling is done next week so two trips and two loads of fuel.

    >> you shouldnt be i've only been entertaining downlights with a quick release from the pcb (which im sure you wont agree with :) ) and have told the sparky i will cut and fit them so just quote me on the wiring, I Just need the wiring in place and terminated to the downlight's PCB's.

    You'll change your mind about the chrome vs brushed steel so I have an extra trip to the wholesaler on top.
    >> I'm supplying them so it's my problem not yours. and i've conferred with you prior, any issues it's my issue, not yours, as it should be.

    Nobody told me about the cavity wall insulation. Drilling 2 courses of brick is now an impossible cable feed nightmare of polystyrene and under quoting.
    >> You've already seen it prior to the quote you've sent me. Granted issues arise, but if you've seen the job, not quoted corretly for it, thats kind of on you if you had access to see it in the first place.

    Plus whatever length of time it takes me to do your job... In order to take it on (even for half a day) it takes into account all those things I just said and then covers the fall out of negating me doing that big 4 week rewire I would otherwise have started but have now pushed in order to quote to do your job sooner.
    >> Well thats what i'm asking for the quote for, an estimate of your time after seeing the job.

    Factors no customer considers which affect my bottom line. You've supplied all materials so I have no mark up on parts I can source and I'm now also resigned to fitting some brand I may be experienced in fitting and know its a sub par brand or has awkwardly placed terminals which add 10mins onto each socket install.
    >> Totally. But it's my perogotive if i want to provide the parts for my house, as long as i consult you prior to make sure your comfortable with the brand/model and installation, you simply need to quote for the labour, and if you dont want the job then thats your perogotive. I've always done this since day dot so there's no surprises for me or you i wouldnt want to spring anything on you. I've gone as far as sending pdf's and diagrams to my trades guys if they've never used the kit so they can device if their comfortable prior.

    You've obviously done a lot of prep. Kudos to you. I wish all customers did. But there's a lot more to sparking than drilling a hole and pulling cable.
    >> I personally always go the extra mile as finishing my property is my primary focus right now, so i'm doing evreything i can to keep the cost down. Anything i do, i send pictures to you for you to double check of advise in case i need to rectify anything for you prior to you arriving.

    It's knowing how to make a sincere wage doing something which when done poorly can be a threat to your life or become a fire hazard.
    > It's a juggling act for sure.

    Bargains don't exist when you're contemplating good electrical work.
    >> I agree - But my original post is focused on discussing a 'fair price.' Not the cheapest price. I just want whats fair.

    I'd want £200/day plus mileage, and a feasible mark up on materials I know and trust to be good.
    >> Thanks, and this is what i've been trying to ascertain, because my quote wants £400 for the day and i'm providing the materials.

    In exchange I'll tell you what daft **** I won't do. Like fit a live 6mm cable laid bare on your garden, and charge you for the 3 ays it may take to finally get done what you hope will be done in 6 hrs.
    >> I'll be glad to hear it over the third cup of tea i make you to make sure you get a few breaks in during the day. I dont want you burning out and not wanting to come back after all for repeat work.


    Sorry Stray.
    It sounds Vicious. It isn't meant to.
    It's just the harsh reality of a job.
    I'd quote 3 days hoping for 2.

    >> Dont apoligize mate, it's fine, its your opinion and it's good to hear.

    I don't know if you've dug a trench suitable.
    >> I've asked you how deep regs suggest, or i've left it for you to do it, so i expect it to be covered by the quote.

    I don't know you. So all I can bank on is... Imagine (forgive my jaded pessimism) your prep isn't up to my standards.
    >> I bet it is. See above. :)

    So I quote for every step having to do it myself and right.
    >> Totally. In this instance though you've done work for me a few times before, so you know what to expect.

    I've quoted a few jobs in my time. Heard no reply. Then been called out to rectify a bad job later on. So I now presume the worst, quote for it, and shave money off if it goes to plan.

    People say nothing is certain other than death and taxes.

    I say the only certainties are death, taxes and having to explain why the problems I forsee will come to light to my customers.

    Not because I'm greedy, I never make enough to warrent the effort I put in, but just because there's no such thing as a simple job.

    >> Amen, I hope this goes some way to explain why i feel my quote is a little high and hence why i wanted to get a rough idea of whether it's fair of me to push back on it.
     
  14. thestraycat

    thestraycat Member

    @Comlec -

    So the quotes for your job in your area at your time - is the ballpark figure. (The range of quotes)
    >> I've been using the same guy. So this quote seems a bit out of wack.

    What you have, is an issue with is the 'perceived value' in the exchange. That is, you think the 'price' is too high.
    >> I think it's too high based on being told it should take half a day and being quoted £400 labour for it with me picking up a further £350 for parts. Seems bizarre.

    Each quote (price) you have received will more than likely have been calculated using a cost plus method. The electrician has taken into all of the costs involved and added a profit margin.
    You can always challenge the quote, many do, to see if there is any flexibility on price. But as others have said the trade has plenty work at the moment so you might just get the standard answer - take it or leave it.

    >> Yup. And to be honest i feel i've been quoted high as maybe my sparky has a lot of other work he prefers to do and has quoted high to push back this work.
     
  15. WH55

    WH55 Screwfix Select

    Coming late to this thread, but £400 for labour only feels reasonable to me (including test & cert), and where I live is presumably a lot cheaper than Surrey. How long it takes your spark is his risk on a fixed price basis.

    What other quotes did you get ? Were they all the same, or much lower ?
     
  16. thestraycat

    thestraycat Member

    @sparko69
    You need to remember that the installation of the accessories is just 1 part of the job for the electrician.
    Installation comes after the install has been designed.
    >> Yup, i'm only looking for a price on labour as i've already designed it, and it's been approved.

    Final testing and certification comes after the installation is completed.
    >> I've hardly recieved any over the years for the work i've had done tbh.

    Some electricians may be happy to quote for just the installation and testing but others will quote for the whole job from design through to testing.
    >> Yup. But i cant remember having any context to the last 5 quotes from the last 5 different electricians. Usually it's a whatsapp with "It'll be £xxx mate." When i get a good breakdown of the job it shows me that someones actually taken 5 minutes to win over my business and mentally i award them 10 points and move them to the top of my shortlist. A number with no context is just rubbish. (With or without parts? What parts? is this price for if the job goes to plan? is this worst case or is this the starting price? will this be done in 1 sitting or 3?)

    My first 3 electricians were just abysmal. First one installed a smart switch incorrectly and blew it up. Next one blew all my walls out because they were chasing it out with the wrong kit for the wall type. Next one blew up a light fitting and capacitor mounted to it and singed a mains run when they called me to show it off. All 3 high check-a-trade rated (which means nothing) And all with heavy recommendations from nextdoor.co.uk I mean it's the wild west. You can see why i'm seeking confirmation of a fair price for a simple piece of work :)
     
  17. thestraycat

    thestraycat Member

    @WH55 - Hey, on this job, i'm using the same guy i've used for the last year. Was surprised the quote was so high. I've detailed my experiences with 3 of the previous sparks in the post above. The fourth was ok, but i just fatigued on his price doubling of the quote and me having to negotiate it back down to half, and him then except the fair price for the job. My recent guys been much better. But taken back by telling me that it's half a days work then quoteing £400 labour and £350 parts (i was expecting the parts)

    **I should probably confirm that the £400 labour (half day) is purely for the outside 6mm cable and into garage CU. Not for the full list of work in my original post!**
     
  18. thestraycat

    thestraycat Member

    @WH55 - In escense i'm being charged £675 labour for 2 sockets back to the CU (there 3m away from the CU and the ceilings removed and I've prechased the sockets) + 9 spotlights (labour only, same ceiling is removed) + the running and terminating of the 6mm cable (also through the removed ceiling to the CU and into the garage) we've also agreed for him to leave it loose in the garden (disconnected) for me to pin it to the new fence that i'll be fitting)
     
  19. WH55

    WH55 Screwfix Select

    I don’t believe that £400 is an unreasonable price for the work you mentioned in the original post.

    That said, £400 for a half day’s work is high.

    However it’s simply not a half day’s work and your spark must know that too. If he says he can do it all in half a day, plus test and cert, then the workmanship will be * poor.

    You should get some other quotes if you’re still concerned.
     
  20. thestraycat

    thestraycat Member

    @Comlec @MrDC @sparko69 @WH55

    Just out of curiosity, i'm interested to know what downlights you guys trust and recommend when you have to quote and install them? My loose requirements are:

    Dimmable
    2700k
    Trailing Edge,
    600+ Lumens
    Preferably user serviceable in some way either a quick connect from the downlight to PCB or a serviceable bulb. (I'm sure the integrated ones are still the dogs danglies, but i'd prefer to pay for the job once and not everytime one snuffs it!)
     

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