Problems converting from TT to PME

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by syholl, Dec 5, 2007.

  1. syholl

    syholl New Member

    Hia

    I have been trying to get a house converted from TT to a PME supply for a couple of months now to no avail. Basically, the current earthrod is located under a paved driveway, and the only way of getting to it to replace it would be to smash up the paving slabs. The reading i get is inconsistent, varying from anything as low as 50 ohms up to the highest reading i have had which was over 600. I am putting this down to a bad earth which varies due to dampness.
    The easy (!!!!!) solution is to PME it, but actually trying to get somebody to do it has been a nightmare. I'll spare you all the annoying details, but we have been fobbed off by various different people saying that it is not their responsibility, including call centres in India.
    Eventually we managed to get an appointment booked, and they turned up as planned. Unfortunately i wasn't on site that day, and they tested the system, found that the reading to the earth rod was OK and just left again.
    After wasting another couple of hours on expensive phone calls to them, i eventually lost my temper, at which point they immediately managed to book another appointment to have the system updated to PME. That appointment was today, they promised to be there between 8am and 1pm, so i sat in my van and waited for them.
    When they hadn't shown up by 1pm i phoned the company, who said that they didn't have any record of the job. This then changed to them saying that they had been trying to get in touch with us because they couldn't carry out the work. How they had tried to get in touch i don't know, as neither my phone or the customers had been phoned...!!! Eventuially, after consultation with her manager, the girl on the phone told me that i needed to carry out the work myself, and convert the cutout to PME, and they will then come out and test it and connect....!!! Now i have never heard of such a thing before, surely we aren't supposed to be messing about with the suppliers equipment. But i checked this with her again, and she told me to just cut the seals and do the necessary work.

    Can this be right...? I'm not convinced...!!! Also, i'm not sure whether the existing cutout is suitable or whether it needs replacing. Do wholesalers even sell these things...?
     
  2. *welsh.wizard*

    *welsh.wizard* New Member

    Eventuially, after consultation with her manager, the girl on the phone told me that i needed to carry out the work myself, and convert the cutout to PME, and they will then come out and test it and connect....!!! Now i have never heard of such a thing before, surely we aren't supposed to be messing about with the suppliers equipment. But i checked this with her again, and she told me to just cut the seals and do the necessary work.


    :O


    I woudn't., Good grief.

    Did you record the phone call? Did you ask her to put that in writing?

    (Bet they won't).
     
  3. sinewave

    sinewave Screwfix Select

    This is typical of some DNO's nowadays!


    Most of the peeps who knew what they were doing have now left! ;)



    In this instance I'd have done it my self way before this stage and ad it on me toes! ;)
     
  4. seneca2

    seneca2 New Member

    Has the cut-out got an earth terminal on it? if so, do a Ze test, how can they expect you to replace their cut-out,the network might not even support PME anyway, is it an overhead supply, if so have a look at a few poles to see if there are earthing conductors on them, I think it`s usually about every 3rd or 4th pole?
     
  5. seneca2

    seneca2 New Member

    As a matter of interest which DNO is it?
     
  6. syholl

    syholl New Member

    The supplier is Scottish Electric. I have never met a more incompetent organisation in my life...

    The supply is definitely suitable for PME, they have already told me that much. I can't recall whether the cutout had an earth connection in it. But i'm near certain that it doesn't, otherwise i would have tested it at the time just to see...
     
  7. sinewave

    sinewave Screwfix Select

    A lot of Cutouts don't have exposed earth blocks now.


    If their going to 'PME' it then they just bash out one of the knock outs covering the Neutral block and run some 16mm G/Y to a MET Block for ya!



    Take a digi-picky of the Cutout with the carrier and the neutral cover removed and lets av a decko! ;)
     
  8. seneca2

    seneca2 New Member

    I`ve seen some cut-outs with what appears to be a small square knock-out on the front, and i`ve seen others with the square hole and the earth screw visible inside.
     
  9. Rabbit Rabbit

    Rabbit Rabbit New Member

    It's an easy enough of a job but I would question the liability side of things.
     
  10. syholl

    syholl New Member

    That's my main concern. I guess i'll have to get it in writing from them and then sort it out myself...
     
  11. seneca2

    seneca2 New Member

    Maybe you could get them to send you one of those PME stickers with their name on it to put on the cut-out.
     
  12. syholl

    syholl New Member

    Well, i would hope they would sort that out when they come to test it and connect.

    It still sounds dubious to me. I think i'll give them another call tomorrow and see what reply i get this time...!!
     
  13. Stoday

    Stoday New Member

    Perhaps the problem arises because you are supposed to deal with the supplier who deals with the DNO. Did you get this advice from the DNO or the supplier? What's the name of the company you are dealing with? 'Scottish Electric' is too vague.
     
  14. *welsh.wizard*

    *welsh.wizard* New Member

    The supplier is Scottish Electric.


    Aww Gawd, they have bought out our DNO - Western Power. :(
     
  15. syholl

    syholl New Member

    Yes, the supplier is Scottish Electric, the most pathetic excuse for a company that ever existed... Good luck WW.
     
  16. Stoday

    Stoday New Member

    Not surprising you have problems with Scottish Electric.

    The consumer watchdog, Energywatch hasn't heard of them.

    Nor has the industry regulator, Ofgem heard of them either.
     
  17. sparks everywhere

    sparks everywhere New Member

    If I were you, I would'nt touch it with a fecking barge pole. The only time I've messed around with the service cut out is if changing a board and there is no other way to isolate the supply. Even then, if the DNO questions why the seals are broken, tell them it was like that when you got there. Besides, how do you know the the supply is suitable for PME? Unless it is an overhead supply with a PME label on the pole, you just don't know. Also, if there is a supply fault at a later date, who's gonna get the blame? The DNO, or the sparky who worked on their equipment illegally? It's beyond belief that they are suggesting that YOU work on THEIR equipment, and that the CUSTOMER will have to pay for it all!
     
  18. syholl

    syholl New Member

    Unfortunately, due to the nature of the paved driveway, which is concreted in place, its not an easy option to replace the earth rod. I thought (!!!!) the easy option would be to PME it, as some of the other houses in the street have already been done.

    Looks like the driveway will be coming up, as i don't fancy touching the cutout myself. Or i could just leave it, as the reading i got when i did the final testing was below 60 ohms, and now that the gas and water have equipotential bonding in place, there is no way that the reading will go up much... Although i am aware that we can't rely on bonding to provide a suitable earth, it certainly helps in this case...
     
  19. JP.

    JP. Screwfix Select

    Yes 60 ohms is not bad..

    Think you are well wise Sy not to attempt to alter the cutout..as you are well aware unknowns exist.

    Scottish Power saying that you can convert to PME yourself and then notify them for testing seems to me that they are breaking rules..

    Judging by the way they work and if you do convert to PME..personally I would worry about there tie downs..ie are they patent?
     
  20. Kwichy

    Kwichy New Member

    I've been through several conversions.

    Make sure the bonds are 10mm, make sure a 16mm main earth goes to
    the CU
    and leave a MET block for them to connect to near the service head
    and you dont get that much grief.

    I've allways had metering do the conversion, not EDF etc.
     

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