Problems with phone line

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by syholl, Jan 18, 2006.

  1. syholl

    syholl New Member

    Hi, i recently moved a phone line for a customer, during a kitchen fit. At the same time she changed broadband supplier.

    Since then she has been having problems with her broadband, and BT reckon they have tested the line, and the fault is somewhere in the house.

    She has digital cordless phones, and what happens is that you can use the phone fine, it calls out, and you can dial in and it rings OK. The broadband will work for a few minutes, and then the modem diconnects... Once this has happened you have to re enter the password and it will work again.

    All i did was extended an existing point, so i don't see how this can have caused the problem. Is it something else...?

    Could it be some sort of conflict between the new modem and the type of phone she has, could it be the modem...?

    What about the little filters that you plug any phones into before you plug into the phone socket. So these go faulty...?

    Any other suggestions...? I have tried changing 2 and 5 over on the phone line, and it did the same thing, Number 3 is connected to provide the ringer...
     
  2. bibbage

    bibbage New Member

    Are you sure she has a filter on all the phones which are plugged in.
     
  3. Legal Sparrow

    Legal Sparrow New Member

    Could be many things, filters do go faulty, could be your new wiring is picking up interferance, could be the modem, could be the broadband supplier... the list is endless.

    If I were you I'd disconnect the frontplate from the master socket, this will isolate everything from the internal telephone wiring. Then plug the modem into that socket.

    If it works then it's the internal wiring, if not then the issue is with the modem, or the BT side wiring. (you must disconnect the front plate for this to be a valid test)

    My broadband has been pretty good (touch wood) though I have had a filter fail (it kept answering the phone for me, before it even rang!). My broadband only works from the master socket during a lightning storm, seems the extension wiring picks up the the e.m.p from the lighting flash. And 1 modem refused to work at all, took that back to the shop.
     
  4. EH59 AMP

    EH59 AMP New Member

    Its sounds like the filters,has she got one on both modem and phone, I had same trouble with a customer, had two filters, a BT make and one she bought from a shop, so i lent her one of my bt ones and it worked fine, assumed that the one she bought was faulty or it could be compatability between makes witch i doubt.either way get new filters.
     
  5. teleman2

    teleman2 New Member

    hi, do as legalsparrow suggested and plug modem and 1 filter directly into test socket of linebox,if all ok at this point and assuming the customer did not have problems before, is the new wiring that you installed run next to, too near mains wiring as this can cause intermittent connections or no connection at all.
     
  6. Bando

    Bando Member

    i'd disconnect the socket you added, if it's still the same it's her problem not yours. I've made the mistake and been there fiddling for hours to find it's something the customer has done and didn't realise.
     
  7. Bando

    Bando Member

    i just remembered....back last year i changed my phoneline over to onetel. Everytime the phone rang my internet disconnected. Phoned onetel and they blamed aol. Phoned aol and they said common problem with onetel they have gain set too high at exchange??? Phoned onetel and they said nonsense. Problem continued so i switched phoneline back to BT and the problem dissappeared.
    Had a call a few weeks later my mate had the same problem with onetel phoneline and BT broadband. So you could have a conflict with internet/phone provider.
     
  8. rbrian

    rbrian Member

    I'm a BT engineer, it's not unusual for adsl to cut out after a sparky has messed up a new socket...

    Although the line only uses 2 and 5, and 3 for the ringer, 4 must be connected to balance the cable. It's best to connect all six wires to be certain. Colours (for cable after about 1985): 1: GREEN/white. 2:BLUE/white. 3:ORANGE/white. 4:WHITE/orange. 5:WHITE/blue. 6:WHITE/green.

    Older cables: 2: blue. 3: green. 4: brown. 5: orange.
     
  9. The Dormouse

    The Dormouse New Member

    Interesting rbrian. I've printed that for future reference
     
  10. Rabbit Rabbit

    Rabbit Rabbit New Member

    I'm a BT engineer, it's not unusual for adsl to cut
    out after a sparky has messed up a new socket...

    Although the line only uses 2 and 5, and 3 for the
    ringer, 4 must be connected to balance the cable.
    It's best to connect all six wires to be certain.
    . Colours (for cable after about 1985): 1:
    GREEN/white. 2:BLUE/white. 3:ORANGE/white.
    4:WHITE/orange. 5:WHITE/blue. 6:WHITE/green.

    Older cables: 2: blue. 3: green. 4: brown. 5:
    orange.

    I am impressed rbrain - your the first BT guy I have come across that professes using the cable colour codes that we sparkys adhere to. I have installed hundreds of extensions ovre the years and have noticed that rarely do BT engineers stick to the standard codes ;)
     
  11. Puffer

    Puffer Member

    Interesting, rbrian. You say that '4 must be connected to balance the cable. It's best to connect all six wires to be certain.'

    Please explain - I have rarely seen this done with the 4th of any 4 core cable (by BT or other person) and of course there may not be more than 4 cores, although I realise that 6 is now the norm. In my house (and others seen), a single 6 core cable serves 2 different lines perfectly well (i.e. each using 3 cores).

    I am aware of possibility of crosstalk where two lines use same/adjacent cable. Is this the result of 'imbalance' and is using two pairs per circuit the (only) remedy?
     
  12. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    It's recommended that the broadband connection is in the master socket AND the cable distance between socket and modem should be less than 10 metres(that includes extension sockets AND connection leads to modem).
    So your modem should have less than 10 metres wiring between MASTER socket and modem.

    Cordless setups (phones) are also problematic as the signal generated from the base to the handset can back up the phone-line(enough to confuse a modem into shutting off).

    There are modem configurations(settings, not physical attachments) to help, but they are manifold and complicated(add AT=10 in extra settings sometimes helps to stop the modem cutting off when the phone rings), but seek help before fiddling too much.





    Mr. HandyAndy - really
     
  13. microamp

    microamp New Member

    Puffer, the twisted pair is a balanced transmission line, where with two core the currents are balance out so in theory the cable niether radiates or accepts any interference. BT scuppered the balance effect by seperating the ringer signal with a capacitor at the master box and sticking it on wire "4". This made the system unbalanced. At audio this is not a problem but with the RF carriers on ADSL is a bit of a crapper. Most of the microfilters have ringer seperation caps in them so the connection of wires other than 2 and 5 is a bit of a waste. If you have the newish 8meg ADSL then I would suggest using CAT5 cable and only use 2 and 5.

    The reason for the seperate ringer goes back to the pre tone dial systems when loop disconnect dialing was used and ringer snubbing was used to prevent "bell jangle".

    PB.
     
  14. microamp

    microamp New Member

    Sorry, two much cider the bell ringer is on "3" not "4".

    PB.
     
  15. Alex G

    Alex G New Member

    I'm a BT engineer, it's not unusual for adsl to cut
    out after a sparky has messed up a new socket...

    Although the line only uses 2 and 5, and 3 for the
    ringer, 4 must be connected to balance the cable.
    It's best to connect all six wires to be certain.
    . Colours (for cable after about 1985): 1:
    GREEN/white. 2:BLUE/white. 3:ORANGE/white.
    4:WHITE/orange. 5:WHITE/blue. 6:WHITE/green.

    Older cables: 2: blue. 3: green. 4: brown. 5:
    orange.

    What a load of ********, you only need 2,5 & 3. Connecting the others will do nothing at all as they are not connected to anything at the service plate.
     
  16. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    i had an free upgrade from bt to my broadband and as soon as they turned it on my broadband went off.
    They sent an engineer out with a lovely panasonic toughbook and after 3 hours he told me that he could do nothing because the line was working. (which was obvious as the phone rang a dozen times while he was there)
    I played hell with bt on the phone and after speaking to half a dozen idiots i was passed to one guy who said "yep your broadband wont work because your old modem can't handle the new higher speed" . Sent me a new one next day and worked straight away.
     
  17. Puffer

    Puffer Member

    Thank you, microamp, but I'm not sure I understand all you say. Do we all agree that 6 core is OK for 2 circuits (using 3 cores per circuit) for speech and/or broadband? But are you also saying that 2 core only would suffice (or be preferred) for a non-speech circuit?

    My lines (2 x 3 in one 6 core cable) are fine for speech and broadband (even though the circuit lengths do not conform to handyandy's rules) but there is a slight problem with crosstalk when both lines are in use - if one keeps silent, the conversation on the other line can be heard very faintly. Why should that be (induction?), and is there a simple remedy (other than separating/duplicating cables)?
     
  18. microamp

    microamp New Member

    If you are using 6 core phone cable (3 twisted pairs) and you are sharing one pair for both ringer functions you will get cross talk. I would not share a pair between lines.

    I know people who use a single pair for each phone line and take 2 and 5 only. Then they need either master boxes or microfilters at each point. Mind you I have a fax machine here that only uses 2 and 5 and doesn't need the seperate ringer.

    Seperate cables are best, I use cat5 throughout.

    PB.
     
  19. Lokkars Daisy

    Lokkars Daisy New Member

    As Mr Handyman posted-
    It's recommended that the broadband connection is in the master socket AND the cable distance between socket and modem should be less than 10 metres(that includes extension sockets AND connection leads to modem).
    So your modem should have less than 10 metres wiring between MASTER socket and modem.

    Why are these distance limitations advised ?? Surely after leaving the premises the signal may have to travel along a mile or two of wet string to reach the exchange,so what difference can a long extension lead at home make?
     

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