Question regarding cooker switch in bathroom zone 3

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Dan4b, Oct 2, 2020.

  1. Dan4b

    Dan4b New Member

    Looking for advice on whether anyone can suggest something better for our bathroom shower switch.

    We are in the situation where our current pull cord switch located directly above but outside of zone 2 (so in zone 3) has failed. The failure was due to moisture creeping inside of the switch and burning out one of the contacts. A direct replacement for the pull cord cannot be installed as both the mains feed and cabling from the shower have been dot and dabbed over by plasterboard (I know, very angry about this) and there is no movement what-so-ever from either cables. To free this up would involve pulling down the entire board and ceramic tiles, which to us on a low income at the moment is not a desirable thing. Instead, our electrician has given us the only remaining option he can see, and that is to install a cooker / shower type switch where the wires currently end, which would be in zone 3, but obviously fairly close to the shower. This wouldn't be readily accessible, as would still be too high for anyone to reach unaided. The switch could be switched off if required at night, but also could be left on.

    I asked whether there was any pull cords that could be fitted against the wall but he said that he couldn't find any with the correct rating. Is he correct in saying there is nothing else that can be done? Could you extend the wires? In an ideal world we would have the switch on the other side of the wall, but again with the wires unable to move this is not possible.

    Any ideas that he might not have thought of would be much appreciated.

    Many thanks.
     
  2. Tuxmark2

    Tuxmark2 Screwfix Select

    A picture saves a thousand words so the saying goes so please post pictures of the present switch and location.

    The part about moisture entering the ceiling switch is somewhat concerning, is there a leak from above or is this moisture from the shower ?

    If you have to go for a wall mounted switch then I would recommend a Hager 50A DP jobbie, either WMDP50N or WMDP50VN with its backbox. fitted loads of them and not had a fail on any, cant say that about the more common known brands. they are not pull cord switches, you can mount a pull cord switch on a wall but it is not recommended because the mounting is not designed for it and may shear off.

    Also find the idiot who dot and dabbed the cables in and beat him with a lump of plasterboard.
     
    Dan4b likes this.
  3. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    There is no zone 3 any more, has not been one for years, but if your scheme member electrician says it can be done and a compliance certificate issued then what is the problem?
     
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  4. Banallsheds

    Banallsheds Well-Known Member

    There is no requirement to have a switch so you could get it bypassed.
     
    Dan4b likes this.
  5. Pedro123

    Pedro123 Member

    What do you mean by no zone 3 anymore?

    Is zone 3 classed as zone 2 now? Or anything outside zone 2 does not require anything specific anymore?
     
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  6. Dan4b

    Dan4b New Member

    No leak or water on the ceiling, water was on inside of the box apparently when removed around screws. I think it might have been our fault to be honest. We had the pull cord installed last year to replace an existing one which also failed, and the person who did the job had to chisel a small amount of plasterboard out to be able to grab the cables enough. We were left with a 2/3 inch hole in the plasterboard which we 'always' said we would repair but never got around to doing. In hindsight it looks like the hole was probably the perfect trap for moisture rising from our shower. We actually had 2 quotes from electricians just before lockdown started for the installation of an extractor fan in our bathroom, as we currently only have an air brick which does nothing. Another job we had to put off due to Covid related redundancy.
     
  7. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    You really need to get a picture up mate. Impossible to comment otherwise. I don't really understand how water can be getting in there if there was no leak? There must be A reason it's getting in there. I would think until this is addressed you will still have the same problem no what what it's replaced with.
     
    Dan4b likes this.
  8. seneca

    seneca Screwfix Select

    As MGW said there is no zone 3 anymore and hasn't been for several years. Your 'electrician' should know this.
     
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  9. Dan4b

    Dan4b New Member

    I am just trying to find a photograph which I am sure I had somewhere of the pull cord when it was installed last year (to show the gap behind). After reading the comments on the zone 3, not sure whether I should query that with him or try and get someone else to take a look. Thanks.
     
  10. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    Yes in a way there is a zone outside zone 2, but it only refers to sockets which unless there is a wall or door needs to be 3 meters away.
     
    Dan4b likes this.
  11. Dan4b

    Dan4b New Member

    I couldn't find the original photo I took after the pull cord was installed last year, but I did take these when the chap who came out made it safe for us. In the first photo you can see the gap at the back which I suspect is where the condensation was creeping in. I take it the damage in the second photo is consistent with water? Is there a specific accreditation I should ask for when calling someone out for a second quote? Thanks.

    IMG_0950.jpg IMG_0951.jpg
     
  12. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    To be accurate the measurement is made from Zone 1
    From the good book
    (701.513.3) ...socket-outlets are prohibited within a distance of 3 m horizontally from the boundary of zone 1

     
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  13. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    @Dan4b looks more like heat damage from a loose connection.
     
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  14. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    @Dan4b I agree with Comlec.

    There is evidence of condensation, but the discolouration of the backbox and the dmage to only the one cable and switch is typical of heat damage rather than water.
     
    Dan4b likes this.
  15. Dan4b

    Dan4b New Member

    Thanks, that's more than convinced me to contact another electrician now. Especially if it could be something else at fault. Is an NICEIC electrician a good standard to look for?
     
  16. Tuxmark2

    Tuxmark2 Screwfix Select

    If your sparks believes there is enough cable left to fit wall mount switch then get him to fit one and do it properly so the terminals are tight and sound, if it can be done that is, that neutral is rather sizzled. He should know there are 0,1 and 2 zones though.
     
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  17. seneca

    seneca Screwfix Select

    I very much agree, definitely a loose connection there.
     
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  18. terrymac

    terrymac Screwfix Select

    What is the kilowatt rating of your shower ?
     
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  19. Dan4b

    Dan4b New Member

    9.5kW Mira Sport.
     
  20. terrymac

    terrymac Screwfix Select

    Loose connection at the switch ,nothing to do with water. Get a different electrician ,the one you had is clueless.
     
    Dan4b likes this.

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