Question regarding worktop joints....

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by pommychick, Aug 31, 2016.

  1. pommychick

    pommychick New Member

    We have just had our worktops replaced by a joiner who was recommended to us.

    We bought the worktops ourselves which were of a high quality. We paid over £1000 for them. The joiner said it would be a 3 to perhaps 4 day job as we asked him to do some other bits in the kitchen as well. He was rushing off to go on holiday straight after finishing our job.
    At the end of day 2 he declared that he had finished the job. We were disappointed to see that the joins in either corner of the sink piece are very noticeable. In fact if you run your hand over the join, you can feel a definate ridge. My husband told the joiner that he wasn't happy with the finish. The joiner told him that it was the fault of the worktop and it was the best he could do as the laminate had chipped whilst cutting which had therefore caused a jagged edge. He then put some wood glue over the join. My husband admitted at the time it looked better than it was. After the joiner had gone we realised he had really rushed our job and maybe that was the reason the workmanship looked disappointing. The day after we looked again and decided that we would get a second opinion as we still felt disappointed in how it looks. It has also started to bubble in places along the join.

    Long story we are in a dispute now with the joiner as we are not paying him until we get a second opinion but my question is... Is it possible to repair a worktop joint without having to have it replaced with brand new worktop? The joiner says it is but he is refusing to tell us how he plans to do this. Any comments from professionals regarding the rest of the situation would be most welcome. Thanks
  2. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    Photo's please, makes it much easier to assess the problems.
  3. pommychick

    pommychick New Member

  4. pommychick

    pommychick New Member

    Done. The darkness in the second photo is because of the wood glue he has used. The worktops were fitted less than a week ago and the wood glue doesn't look dark now.
  5. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Complete carp!:eek:

    Not even cut straight, if he routed dogbones in each piece of worktop, glued & fitted the joint bolts, the joint should pull up tight & be difficult to notice.


    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
  6. dwlondon

    dwlondon Active Member

    if there is enough worktop he might be able to pull off a trim and refit . but it rather depends on how far the blistering has gotten into the tops. its unlikely another fitter would try and effect a fix, i wouldn't. so if he can't get a reasonable result you would be in for a whole replacement. As you both can only improve by trying a repair that is now the logical choice. if it fails then its down to sorting out the settlement.
  7. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    Not good, not good at all, totally unacceptable and I fear not repairable to a standard expected on new work.
  8. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    If the laminate chipped that's the fitters fault for using an old cutter, if there's a ridge that's the fitters fault, if the laminate is bubbling the fitter hasn't sealed the joint and that's his fault.
  9. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Defintely not repairable,overall worktop will be too short , once they are squared up.
    moisture got in as well, worktop will swell.
  10. pommychick

    pommychick New Member

    Many thanks for your replies. He's refusing to accept there's anything wrong with it and has threatened to take it further due to the fact we haven't paid him. (£400 for two days work - we bought the worktops separately) He came over last night to discuss the matter so we were hopeful that we were getting somewhere in him acknowledging that it wasn't a good job.. but all he actually did was threaten us again to take it further. Oh but he said that he could repair it if he had to, but when we asked, he refused to tell us how he planned on doing this. Probably a bodged patch up job which he won't admit to.

    He took photos whilst he was here yesterday. (As he is taking things further!) Then he texted my husband to say he believes we have deliberately tampered with the joints!

    Can't believe he is jumping up and down about us not paying him £400 when we have spent nearly a grand on worktops which are left damaged by him!
  11. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    Odd he would say that there is nothing wrong with it, BUT he could repair it!

    Mr. HandyAndy - Really
  12. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    Money claim online, it may take a couple of years to sort out and only correspond via email not text or by phone. I would wait at first for him to claim against you as then he is paying the costs.
    Deleted member 164349 and KIAB like this.
  13. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    TBH, I would write to him first stating that the quality of the work is not suitable. I would also get at least three quotes from other kitchen fitters either to fix it or replace before too long - you don't want him to use an excuse that the joints have deteriorated over time!

    At the end of the day you are £1,000 down and don't have what you want, plus a lot of stress - you could always put in a claim of your own for costs and damages. The court fee is between £60 and £70
    KIAB likes this.
  14. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    There are several stages till you get to court and you have to pay a fee at each stage.
  15. pommychick

    pommychick New Member

    Thanks guys. Unfortunately my husband has been corresponding only via text thinking it would stand up in court as it was written communication. So text communication wouldn't be accepted?
  16. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    The problems with text are that you have to preserve it as evidence and also prove that the person on the other side saw it. It would be quite easy to create an account like "fred the builder" with a friends mobile number and send texts to each other and then change the number to the actual builders name. So sometimes text messages are discounted unless forensics have been taken to check the validity.

    With things like this it is always better to be on the front foot - especially if it does escalate. It often looks better if you state your position that the standard of the work contracted for provided by the fitter is not suitable and you would be willing to pay if the work meets a good standard. Since the fitter has taken pictures, I would ask him for options on how he is going to get the work up to standard at his cost.

    And then take it from there - Have a word with CAB or some house insurance have legal cover. At the moment you are between £400 and a £1,000 down
    pommychick likes this.
  17. pommychick

    pommychick New Member

    Thank you. Husband has read up a bit about our consumer rights. We have to give him the opportunity to put it right which we did when he came over the other night. Problem is he just started yelling and saying there was nothing wrong with it.. And kept mentioning he was going to Trading Standards. My husband said that he had received a second professional opinion from another joiner who has said that it is very poor standard and we will be left with a damaged, rotten worktop. Joiner said "I could improve the look of it if I had to" but then refused to tell us how. He demanded to see a copy of the quote/report from our second opinion which we haven't get received due to the bank holiday. It has been left that he will be in touch once he has received a copy of the second opinions quote. The funny thing was when he was storming off, he tripped over our front doorstep! But we made sure we didn't snigger. ( bloody hard not to!) When he got home, he texted my husband and said that the photos he has just taken look different to how it was. Then he accused us of tampering with the worktop joints by wiping out the wood glue which he had applied when he installed the worktops. My husband tried to tell him that the glue had just dried over the few days it had been down. We have been careful not to touch the joint whilst all this has been going on (few days). We are reasonable people and we feel very disappointed that all this has happened. We haven't even mentioned to him that the other work he did was poor as well. ( Husband has had to take out a cabinet he installed as it did not sit straight - it was all uneven; he created a cabinet to house our unsightly boiler but it was so badly made, my husband has had to fix it the best he could.) My husband is quite good at DIY but did not want to risk installing the worktops himself as he knew it's quite a skilled craft.

    Thanks again for your input.
  18. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    Quite interesting that he is going to Trading Standards - to turn himself in ;)

    But I would still put it in writing with all the other faults, conversations are very hard to prove
  19. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    It is just easier with emails to print off a written record.
    Email the fitter with a list of the problems and ask him what he intends to do, if what he suggests is reasonable and what he does is agreeable then pay him.
    If what he suggests is reasonable but the results are bad then don't pay him.
    If what he suggests isn't reasonable then don't pay him.
    What happens next is up to you, you can put in a claim online which will include the damage to the worktops and also the costs of rectifying the damage so new worktops and labour, you will have to pay to put the claim in and at each stage you will have to pay more, there will be a stage where you are phoned to try to come to an agreement.
    The other option is to see if he will try to take you to Money Claims Online and then he will have to stump up the money upfront.
    The loser pays the winners fees but it's just money tied up for 2 years.
  20. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    My joints are better than that and I'm DIY. A correctly made masons mitre in a laminate worktop should be barely detectable. I would accept no ridge or the barest of ridges (like microscopic). He should be using colorfill not glue in the joint. This is colour matched to the worktop and helps to make a joint virtually totally invisible. Get 2-3 other pro opinions who say it is c**p. Get quotes from them to supply and fix. Give the other guy a chance to remedy which is really new worktop and remake. If he won't, get it done again and sue for the total damages. You should win provided you have good evidence from other pros that the standard is unacceptable. You WILL have to give him chance to remedy though. Do everything in writing - document email attachment is best.
    pommychick likes this.

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