Question regarding worktop joints....

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by pommychick, Aug 31, 2016.

  1. Marshall Mosby

    Marshall Mosby New Member

    The fitter has certainly not done the job right. Let him take the first step to get into court. Until then you guys just do the communication(if any) with him via email.
     
  2. dwlondon

    dwlondon Active Member

    you all need to move on from the condition of being disappointed at what happened to deciding on what can be done now. otherwise pride sets in and its a long haul to a resolution.

    if the fitter goes on to fail at fixing the error, it will be self evident that he should simply bow out and expect nothing. you can save 400. which might be enough to get in a pro fitter to rework the situation. You will probably need more worktop. A bit more costly but with the job done properly, you can get on with life.
     
  3. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    It's not just not paying the fitter, he has damaged £1000 of worktop.
    If you took your car in for an MOT and they wrote your car off you wouldn't be happy with them just refunding your £45.
     
  4. BMC2000

    BMC2000 Active Member

    Technically he's damaged half of it, you can nick a bit of the existing length and splice the new bit.
     
  5. Marshall Mosby

    Marshall Mosby New Member

    Certainly there is no reason for having strenuous thoughts in the head about what has already happened. About mind as they say, "It's all one tank". If you use it on the things about which you can't do anything, its just a waste. But still as chippie244 said, we should stand for ourselves, atleast in a calm and sophisticated manner by the rules.
     
  6. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    Without seeing you can't tell.
     
  7. dwlondon

    dwlondon Active Member

    fair comment. i am assuming there would be enough left to rework, but that another section would need to be bought to complete the job. Which in terms of the overall extra spend may only amount to a few hundred more. Which isn't enough to go into a long period of unhappiness, putting up with a .... kitchen and expensive costs.
     
  8. dwlondon

    dwlondon Active Member

    yeah a piccie of the whole job would be useful to assess whats left and the overall design and layout.
     
  9. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    I agree with your thoughts on just letting go and getting on with your life but there are limits.
     
  10. Rulland

    Rulland Screwfix Select

    Unless the OP has seriously over ordered on worktop, which I doubt, then a complete re order is required surely?.
    One can't just cut the 'hashed' joints off and redo, everything would be short, and a bodge imho.
     
  11. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    Plus worktops are like wallpaper, you need to order from the same batch to get a good match, assuming they are laminate.
     
  12. dwlondon

    dwlondon Active Member

    Jeez. Sometimes the skill in tradeswork is in making effectable some of the mishaps that come along. If we gave up at the first sign of imperfection, we would all be driving about in a three tonner full of worktops.
     
  13. pommychick

    pommychick New Member

    Thanks Rusty....
     
  14. pommychick

    pommychick New Member

    So are you saying I should accept a substandard job where after forking out £1400 I will be left in a few months time with rotten, bubbled joints in two corners? I paid a professional for a professional finish and I ended up with ruined worktops! We are reasonable people if he had took it on the chin and accepted it wasn't a great job, we would have been willing to come to some agreement instead of all this stress and agro which is definately not what we want! Are you a forum troll by any chance?
     
  15. dwlondon

    dwlondon Active Member

    No you should not accept a sub standard job. Decent tradesfolk don't expect that. But if the guy is a professional he should be able to effect a recovery at this point, but it will be impossible some time from now as the joints will blow, and all the more difficult to argue. If you don't think he can, don't pay him. get someone else; if the costs are more or less what I said above ie a few hundred more. If not then going down the claim route probably is the answer.
     
  16. TheMorg

    TheMorg Active Member

    Isn't £400 a bit cheap, that should of set alarm bells ringing (certainly for 3-4 day estimate).

    I don't know how the price you paid for a job would ever go down in court, but can you expect top tradesman for peanuts?

    It doesn't stop the work being shoddy whatever you paid of course.
     
  17. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    Um, 5m worktop, 2 joints? I'd expect to do that on my own (ok with a little bit of lifting assistance) in 1 day - 2 at the most if there was lot of scribing and fiddling.
     
  18. pommychick

    pommychick New Member


    He quoted the going rate actually as we got a couple of quotes. As I said above, we had already bought the worktops ourselves and I wouldn't have thought that £200 per day was cheap! He said it would take him 3 to 4 days to do the worktops and the other bits but finished at the end of day 2.
     
  19. koolpc

    koolpc Screwfix Select

    Dont pay. Tell him to take it further if he wants as you are also seeking legal advice
     
  20. Hi Marshie.

    Chippie said it clearly with "If the laminate chipped that's the fitters fault for using an old cutter, if there's a ridge that's the fitters fault, if the laminate is bubbling the fitter hasn't sealed the joint and that's his fault."

    That is undoubtedly sub-standard, not the work of a 'professional' and not the finish you should have received.

    You said the tops cost £1000 a piece? What type are they - 'ordinary' laminate on chipboard, or the 'solid' type which has at least 3mm of thick composite coating on a chipboard core? (like Maia and others). If the latter, then there's more chance of 'repairing' it by using the same-coloured epoxy filler they provide, and then the whole surface can be sanded and polished down to complete flatness.

    If it's a laminate top, however, I don't know of any way to sort it properly other than to redo the joints. Yes they can add all sorts of sealants and fillers to try and bridge the levels, but what a bodge that would be on a laminate top - and unacceptable.

    The fact the guy is also being aggressive and lying about the situation (blaming you...) indicates he is not a professional, not to be trusted in the least, and this can be reason enough to not allow him even an opportunity to try and effect a repair if you didn't want him to.

    (Normally you do need to allow a tradespeep a chance to sort the issue, and it even used to be the case that they were allowed 3 attempts! No longer, I believe, and now you can show them the door if they, for example, become aggressive or threatening, or are so clearly incompetent that you can reasonably claim they aren't up to the job.)

    If they call around again in person, record the conversation. In any event write down a detailed log of every communication you have had with them, timed and dated. Include as much of the dialogue as you can correctly recall (add 'I paraphrase' if it's the gist of what was said but you aren't sure of the exact words). Definitely write down any 'threats' and incorrect claims they made against you.

    If, while they are there they swear or become aggressive or threatening to the extent you feel genuinely uncomfortable, do bear in mind that this is a crime, pure and simple. You can call your local police without hesitation if you wish.

    Right, you now need professional advice. CAB is a good start, and may even be enough.

    If all you needed from them was to walk away without being paid, then that would be easy - there is no way in the world they will launch a claim against you. If they tried, they'd lose. (Take lots of photos, including macro ones at close level showing the ridge, etc. Get a ruler and lay is across the join - show that the gap looks to be about 1mm (is it?), whereas it should be 'tight' and nigh-on invisible. Also hold the ruler on its edge across the 'higher' top and try and show that there's a gap under it and the adjacent top. Perhaps even slide under enough sheets of paper as a guide to the size of the gap (there simply shouldn't be any!) Also take photos of the boiler cabinet (shame your hubbie improved it...) and any other shoddy jobs to also indicate their level of competence.

    The situation actually is, however, that you need more from them than just to not be paid - they have damaged your tops. And I wouldn't let them anywhere near it again - I would not trust that they could 'repair' this without actually removing the tops and trimming these joints again (assuming they are laminate tops) using a proper guide and a router.

    So, what you now need is an alternative quote for a repair, and it's this sum that you will be suing them for. (Imagine, for example, that the guys had drilled a hole into your top, or had run their saw down the surface and scratched it - would you allow them to try and effect a repair? Not a chance. This is a similar situation - they have damaged your tops, and are liable for this.

    So, contact CAB and also another local fitter. Get the latter out for a quote and listen carefully to how they would carry out a repair on it. Ask this fitter for a brief written report of the job, what needs doing, and the cost. Tell him fitter that he is not wasting his time doing this - he will get the job all going well.

    Finally, do you have 'legal protection' on your home insurance? If so - you're sorted! Call up their helpline and get some good advice. If you don;t have LP, you know what to add next year...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2016

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