recently fitted upvc windows, little or no reveal showing inside

Discussion in 'Other Trades Talk' started by natto, Nov 5, 2014.

  1. natto

    natto New Member

    Hi, the old windows that were taken out were about 30 yrs old and so were chunkier compared to modern windows.
    The previous owners had replastered with these in situ, but despite this there was an even amount of frame showing and they looked balanced.
    To be honest the plastering is not absolutely true, though with the old windows in place, this was not at all noticable, had it been We would have addressed this before having windows fitted.
    We have checked the plaster since, it is not so out of line that you would normally be concerned about it, but with the new windows fitted it is glaringly obvious that something is out of wack, in our opinion because the window frame showing is so slim that it seems to exagerate the minor faults in the uprightness of the plaster and the window itself. We have checked the new windows they are marginally out of upright/level.
    What we would like to know is, how you would normally measure/fit windows when the difference between the inside and outside measurement is larger than average? Our fitter says the most important thing is that they look right from the outside and measured accordingly despite the fact he was aware of the difference inside and out. does not matter ?
  2. metrokitchens

    metrokitchens Screwfix Select

    50% discount.
    You end up with windows you do not like but function correctly.
    Supplier ends up with no profit / wages but does not go bust.
    Next time you both get everything in writing.
  3. Biffo

    Biffo Member

    im not sure where to go to for advice either . ive been in this situation several times over the years
    usually on the cills of bathrooms and kitchens , where the cill had been rasied either by plasterboarding over and tiling of adding another row of tiles
    if they are having a total refit yes , id remove all the extra tiles / plasterboard and give them a sound surface to work off

    failing that NEW windows

    as for losing the frame on the sides new windows needed

    if i have any doubt on a jod now id call for large outer all round it add 15mm to each side to give a standard reveal inside
  4. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    Could you supply a picture of the windows from outside.
  5. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    I'll bet the surveyor(bloke who measured up for the windows) didn't even measure inside. It is essential(a 50mm difference to the outside would immediately alert them to investigate and allow different sized frames). If it got so far that the fitter takes the old window out, they would immediately see that the window they are putting in will not match the inner reveals. That would be the time to stop, not fit it, and remedy it.
    For me, it is 100% unacceptable, and I would not pay a penny until ALL windows were acceptable. Your first thoughts were spot-on.

    Mr. HandyAndy - Really
  6. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Surveyor wouldn't necessarily have checked the size of the plastered reveals inside the property. For instance he might not have been able to gain access when he measured the outside. I know when I've measured windows. I've only measured the outer opening (as is usual) because that's what the window has to fit into. ;)
    Doall likes this.
  7. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    I've just had some windows measured and the surveyor measured from outside and inside. I also had to sign some paperwork, which I was provided with a copy of.
  8. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Handy, it's quite usual when removing old window frames, to have to damage them to get them bluggers out. With wooden frames, I've had to saw the sides to allow removal of the frames. Bit hard to get them out, measure the reveals then say "Stop." A bit too late once the old ones are out (short of cutting some osb and blocking the opening up till the new frames are re-made. (innit) ;)
  9. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    Exactly what happened with my door, when they came to fit it they specified a low threshold meaning the door could not be opened as it would hit the tiled floor. It was a door and window combi. it had to be sent back to the manufactures and had to be adjusted including the bottom panel. It was an aluminum door.

    They had to refit the old door.
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2014
  10. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    Nah, I mean after the surveyor has measured, the windows been made and the fitters turn up to fit them. They would then take the old out and immediately see a problem. NOT fit them anyway and hope the customer don't care.

    Mr. HandyAndy - Really
  11. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Handy do you realise what you just said there?? Take the old ones out, realise there's a problem and not fit the new ones... Leaving the householder with an open space.. (bit drafty and cold at this time of the year) ;);)

    If they spotted the problem, they'd still have to close the opening with something, both for security and draft proofing.
  12. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    Most fitters are subbies, so get paid per each widow install.

    Still with a local company there may be a set of 2-4 fitters, but still wouldn't have said anything and kept quite.
  13. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    Of course. Like you said, bang a bit of board in there(securely) til sorted. Or fit the new temporarily, but to finish it up, obviously wrongly, and hope for the best is outrageous.

    Mr. HandyAndy - Really
  14. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Thing is Handy,,, No one's going to want a bit of osb up at their window opening whilst a new frame is being made. (and believe me, it's not gonna be made in a few days) ;);)
  15. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    Well I'm sure they'd rather have that, than finished the way they have been. But it should never have made like that in the first place. We all know that.
    I worked in a team of just two. If I removed the old frame and found those reveals, I'd have been straight on the phone to the boss, "I can't fit that."

    Mr. HandyAndy - Really
    Biffo likes this.
  16. metrokitchens

    metrokitchens Screwfix Select

    I suspect the boss would reply 'fit it or foff'
  17. natto

    natto New Member

    My partner did ask the fitter about the windows in question at the time, the fitter said that he thought they were not quite right, but had to fit them anyway as the old window had been removed and if we were unhappy we needed to talk to the boss. When the boss finally came round, 4 days later he denied there was anything wrong with them and that is where we are now, with him saying they are fine, us completely disagreeing with him, you guys on here all saying they are wrong and yesterday we had a guy from a different glazing compny come to measure for a door, he immediately spotted the problem windows -who said they had been made too big for the aperture and the fact that part of the frame is behind the palster means that if anything happens to the glass and it needs replacing this could not be done without causing damege.
    So, if that is the concensus, why is the boss of he company who installed the problem windows being so stubborn ?
  18. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    "why is the boss of he company who installed the problem windows being so stubborn ?"

    We are not allowed to swear that strongly on here!

    Mr. HandyAndy - Really
  19. Why? Because it'll cost him. They do know it's wrong, but are hoping to get away with it.

    I'd ask the guy from the new company to also quote for replacing all the 'silly' windows, and then hold that amount back from the original bill.

    Put in writing to the original company what you are doing and why - withholding monies to cover the replacement of the unacceptable windows. Clear facts only. Show good intent by agreeing to pay for all the 'ok' stuff they've done, and that you'll pay the full amount should they also replace all the not ok windows. Their call.

    Give them a week to respond (put an actual 'reply by' date on the letter).

    After that time, if they haven't agreed to sort them, go with the new company.

    You shouldn't be any worse off. And you gave them a fair chance to sort it.

    (I think that's what I would do.)
  20. natto

    natto New Member

    following the advice recieved, we have been in communication with this company.
    to cut a long story short, after much tooing and frowing, they asked us what we thought a fair payment would be as a compromise.
    we made an offer, approx 1/3rd off the total price(to cover our costs to get work put right) and sent payment, thinking that we were at the end if this sorry saga.
    Now they have returned the payment, offered to come back in 5 weeks time to put SOME things right, ignoring the biggest issues, just suggesting a bit of snagging and asking for full payment.
    We feel like we are back to square one !

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