Relax, folks, there is

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joinerjohn1 said:
Greece, as a country, is now owned by German banks DA.
Of course he's going to say what ever the EU tell him to say. (and run the risk of no future bail outs. Junckers word is law. The UK is foolish for refusing to take part in the greatest experiment to relinquish absolute control of this great sovereign nation , ain't they?

Nice to see Greece admits they've been disciplined . :p:p:p:p:p:p
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You simply cannot get away with saying silly things like that, JJ.

Stop it now.

a) Greece is a sovereign nation - as is the UK, by the way...
b) Yanis says what he wants & believes 'cos he's no longer tied to a government.
c) These two completely foolish and inaccurate claims are the best part of your post.

Who on earth do you think you are kidding?
 
Mr. Handyandy said:
We must not (and will not) let ourselves be held to ransom!
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Absolutely not, Mr Ha.

You're the man.

I'd rather die or have a complete fiscal collapse before being told anyfink by Herr Merk. How DARE she tell anyone anything about how to run their economy! Bludy hard-working krauts. They can KEEP their mamby-pamby successful economy.

etc etc etc.
 
Wonderful replies as always, u-s.

I'm just waiting for btiw2 to come along now and be all 'fair'... :rolleyes:
 
German banks, German business, Chinese business.... A wholesale bargain bucket sell off at heavily discounted rates with the Greeks themselves having to foot the bill for things like resultant redundancies. Potential future revenue streams gone from the Greek people into the hands of overseas private capital.

I can't be heras fenced to say any more or go into other aspects of....I dunno if I can type this without laughing all over the fone's tippy tappy keyboard.....the Greek recovery.

Why can't I?
Cos there's no point. Them what know do and them what don't will ignore anything I type and continue exercising their "critical thought" by parroting hackneyed and erroneous baloney....month in, month out.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
You simply cannot get away with saying silly things like that, JJ.

Stop it now.

a) Greece is a sovereign nation - as is the UK, by the way...
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Christ DA, you almost believe yourself don'tcha. Greece is almost totally owned by the German banks.. Herr Merkel tells em to jump and the Greek governments response is "How high? " That's not bloody sovereignty DA (and you know full well it's not) Open yer eyes for once DA. PLEASE.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
I'd rather die or have a complete fiscal collapse before being told anyfink by Herr Merk. How DARE she tell anyone anything about how to run their economy! Bludy hard-working krauts. They can KEEP their mamby-pamby successful economy.

etc etc etc.
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DA, Germany's economy is going to be anything but successful once they don't have the UK paying in £billions a year into the EU coffers.. Do you not realise this yet? Tell me, How are the EU going to make up the shortfall once the UK leaves? Ahh Spain, Portugal Greece, and Italy (to name but a few are gonna have to tighten their belts under the orders of Merkel and Junckers.. But never mind,, Merkel will be just fine on her salary... Junckers too will be living the high life on his EU funded salary and pension you can only ever dream about.
Anyway, to quote you "Bludy hard-working krauts" "Hard working Germans," Yep that's why they need so many immigrants to do the jobs mate,,, Coz there's not enough "hard working Germans" They're far too busy reserving sun beds in Majorca.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
Well, as I understand it, the - then - leftish Greek government swore to tell the EU where to go when they were told they'd have to tighten their belts before getting any EU payments.

They soon changed their minds - essentially because they knew that to continue on their existing path would have led to their complete and utter ruin.
In turn they received - again, I understand - €240bn in EU payouts, mostly from Germany.

Have you stopped laughing? Fatly?

Even their, then, financial minister, Yanis Whatshisface, declares that remaining in the EU is wise.

And that the UK is a clot.
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Then you clearly don't understand it. Do some research, you'll find the money is doing a bit of a round robin. It's all to do with re-financing banks, not Greece.
 
Uh-huh. Hmmm, I see, lads.

So, where would Greece be now - following the w-w credit crunch - without the EU's discipline and fiscal support?
 
Devil's Advocate said:
Absolutely not, Mr Ha.

You're the man.

I'd rather die or have a complete fiscal collapse before being told anyfink by Herr Merk. How DARE she tell anyone anything about how to run their economy! Bludy hard-working krauts. They can KEEP their mamby-pamby successful economy.

etc etc etc.
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True they work hard, but they gained massively when they joined the eurozone because their currency was already very strong.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
I'm just waiting for btiw2 to come along now and be all 'fair'... :rolleyes:
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Fair?

I'm sure we all agree with longboat:
longboat said:
don't furnish anything you are about to read with even the slightest scepticism, just accept it, don't check the validation of any claim, soak it up?
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So, treat with scepticism.
Verify claims.
Use authoritative primary sources and try to establish whether a claim is correct.
Let's not interpret scepticism as "ignore things I disagree with".

Long's call for factual accuracy is obviously important.
That's why since Long's post there have been so many posts cross referencing the article's paragraphs with UK legislation.

Of course I'm happy to waste my time tracking down sources to verify/debunk that whole article.
Sources that nobody cares to read (unless from a person that the reader already agrees with).

Here are my references:
  • gov.uk/benefits/nobodyCaresAboutTheActualEligibilityCriteria
  • europa.eu/european-union/law_en/whyBotherReadingLawsJunckerMakesMoreMoneyThanMe
  • ons.gov.uk/dataWhichAreGoingToBeIgnoredAnyway
  • hansard.parliament.uk/statementsByPoshPeople
  • wto.org/theseInternationalAgreementsDontChangeSovereignty
  • ec.europa.eu/eurostat/lolHahaRoflmaoPleaseHelpIMayBeSufferingFromPseudobulbarAffect

Or we could just talk about Greece - because, you know, irrelevant.
 
btiw2 said:
Or we could just talk about Greece - because, you know, irrelevant.
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Twas I that first referenced Greece, as a result of the statement in the article that Jack posted. A daft, shallow and contentious rhetorical statement that showed no actual insight into the Greek situation.
Greece is an irrelevance to the subject of the EU?
Mmmmkkk.
I'd have to disagree with that one. What has happened with Greece is very revealing and worthy of attention.
 
P J Thompson said:
Twas I that first referenced Greece, as a result of the statement in the article that Jack posted. A daft, shallow and contentious rhetorical statement that showed no actual insight into the Greek situation.
Greece is an irrelevance to the subject of the EU?
Mmmmkkk.
I'd have to disagree with that one. What has happened with Greece is very revealing and worthy of attention.
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"Worthy of attention"?
The original article was about Brexit and asserting[1] that some of the things that were reported are falsehoods and/or misconceptions.
You've picked up one sentence in a long article and posted "Lol".

Greece is in the Eurozone - we're not.
The UK economy has a very different size and structure to the Greek economy.
Greece and the UK have very different relationships with the EU.
Anyone who thinks Greece was thriving before joining the Eurozone may want to refresh their memories about the Greek economy in the 80s and 90s.

If the original article has been "Brexit and how it effects small Mediterranean Eurozone economies" then:
a) It'd be a weirdly specialised article to post on here.
b) It'd be relevant to talk about Greece.

Perhaps you just wanted to ignore the meat of JoT's article.
If so, then I can't blame you, I did too.

[1] Asserting - because it didn't seem a well referenced article to me - not that it would have made any difference to people's opinions.
 
Harry Stottle said:
True they work hard, but they gained massively when they joined the eurozone because their currency was already very strong.
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Nothing to do with poor tax collecting and black economy then? The fault was all caused by the EU ?
 
Devil's Advocate said:
Uh-huh. Hmmm, I see, lads.

So, where would Greece be now - following the w-w credit crunch - without the EU's discipline and fiscal support?
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Errrr you mean "Without the support of various German banks , in turn supported by the EU ?
 
btiw2 said:
"Worthy of attention"?
The original article was about Brexit and asserting[1] that some of the things that were reported are falsehoods and/or misconceptions.
You've picked up one sentence in a long article and posted "Lol".

Greece is in the Eurozone - we're not.
The UK economy has a very different size and structure to the Greek economy.
Greece and the UK have very different relationships with the EU.
Anyone who thinks Greece was thriving before joining the Eurozone may want to refresh their memories about the Greek economy in the 80s and 90s.

If the original article has been "Brexit and how it effects small Mediterranean Eurozone economies" then:
a) It'd be a weirdly specialised article to post on here.
b) It'd be relevant to talk about Greece.

Perhaps you just wanted to ignore the meat of JoT's article.
If so, then I can't blame you, I did too.

[1] Asserting - because it didn't seem a well referenced article to me - not that it would have made any difference to people's opinions.
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I did indeed pick up on the one statement. Because it's a laughable statement and highlights the nature of the article. To be fair to me, I didn't expect Greece to become a major topic of the thread :D However, seeing as it currently is... No-one has suggested that Greece was some guiding economic beacon pre the crash. It was a financial basket case. Not alone in that though eh.....I mean what caused the crash? :D Greece has certainly been coerced into major privatisation as a part of it's caving in to the troika though. It's certainly seen large sections of it's infrastructure 'industry' going into the hands of private overseas capital. It has certainly had very harsh austerity imposed that has caused major hardship for many and will continue to. IMO it would have been better off leaving the euro but heh, let's not go on too much....people may get uppity about Greece being irrelevant and stuff :D However the treatment of Greece does betray some of the prime motives and attitudes of both the Troika and the EU. So it is relevant :P

As for wanting to ignore the meat of the article.....ummmm, can't really deny that. It was largely crud.
 
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