Relocating boiler from bedroom to kitchen?

[Thesmellybuilder]

I'm looking for some advice on a special case; my friend has a ground floor flat which has 2 bedrooms, living room, bathroom and kitchen in a terraced massionette. The upstairs is owned by someone else.

His property has a long lease something like 500 years plus.

He showed me round and there is a boiler (which has had gas safety certificates) in the back bedroom (i've highlighted the location on the floor plan in red) - he wants to relocate the boiler because he doesn't feel comfortable sleeping next to a boiler and also to free up some space in the room.

He wants to relocate it to the kitchen, but this will involve walling up a window, however he notes that one of the windows in the kitchen is not the original windows of the house, as it has no vertical bricks running across the top and all other massionettes on the road dont match the same window profile. I have added a pic which highlights the window in question he wants to wall up and either place a boiler on it or have a flue run directly through it.

I've called a gas safe engineer with him to have a look but am stuck on what else to advise him;

Does he need the freeholders permission to move the bioler?

Does he need freeholders permission to wall up a window that shouldnt be there in the first place (someone years ago might have done it, not the previous owner)?

How would this work in reality? Does a gas safe engineer just fit a new one?

Old bioler is a bit old about 15 years Vailant, and he has to decorate the property anyway including the kitchen so stuff needs to be done anyway.

We're in the M25, so not sure of costs as of yet.

I've added the following pics;

1. The boiler in the bedroom
   
   
2. The kitchen window which he suspects is not the original window due to no red vertical red bricks above the frame
   
   
3. Front view from inside kitchen
   
   
4. Floorplan to show location in property
   

Thanks in advance and we appreciate any help!

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[Jimbo]

Is that a cupboard next to the bath? Does it have space for a hot water tank? Could go with an air source heat pump which would need nothing inside except for a hot water tank and control panel, which will almost certainly work out cheaper than replacing the boiler because of the grant.

 

[Thesmellybuilder]

Is that a cupboard next to the bath? Does it have space for a hot water tank? Could go with an air source heat pump which would need nothing inside except for a hot water tank and control panel, which will almost certainly work out cheaper than replacing the boiler because of the grant.

The owner doesn't want to put a cupboard or sleep near it, also the air source heat pump isn't really an option here as the property is quite old and they prefer a boiler

 

[teabreak]

A couple of problems come to mind, discharging under that canopy is a bad idea, the flue would be too close to the neighboring bedroom window.
I am not a fan of boilers in bed rooms but I can see why it is sited there.
I assume he has a CO detector fitted.

 

[ChrisJP]

The flue could be extended up through the canopy roof, which would also move it away from the adjacent window.
But bear in mind the large amount of boiler-to-radiators pipe re-routing that will be required for the boiler to moved such a large distance. I guess these pipes are either buried in walls or under the floor - or both - so re-routing the boiler connections to the kitchen will require a LOT of disruption. The gas supply pipe will also need to be removed.
I can understand that having a boiler in a bedroom is a bit unusual but it could be boxed into a cupboard and, as long as there is a carbon monoxide monitor/alarm in the bedroom, there is really no downside to this arrangement.

 

[stevie22]

He'll probably need freeholder consent.

As a non pro plumber I'd query the "relocation": surely a 15 year old boiler wouldn't economically warrant moving?

 

[Thesmellybuilder]

A couple of problems come to mind, discharging under that canopy is a bad idea, the flue would be too close to the neighboring bedroom window.
I am not a fan of boilers in bed rooms but I can see why it is sited there.
I assume he has a CO detector fitted.

CO is fitted on side of wall might be hard to see from angle. Boiler is about 15 years old though.

Is there a recommended safe distance to a flue being placed near a window?

Maybe placing the boiler on the opposite window is a better idea? As in the small kitchen window

 

[Thesmellybuilder]

He'll probably need freeholder consent.

As a non pro plumber I'd query the "relocation": surely a 15 year old boiler wouldn't economically warrant moving?

Yep he's reaching out as we speak.

Apologies disregard moving it, due to its age it would most likely be replaced in its entirety instead with a new one - probably a Main/Baxi one

 

[Thesmellybuilder]

The flue could be extended up through the canopy roof, which would also move it away from the adjacent window.
But bear in mind the large amount of boiler-to-radiators pipe re-routing that will be required for the boiler to moved such a large distance. I guess these pipes are either buried in walls or under the floor - or both - so re-routing the boiler connections to the kitchen will require a LOT of disruption. The gas supply pipe will also need to be removed.
I can understand that having a boiler in a bedroom is a bit unusual but it could be boxed into a cupboard and, as long as there is a carbon monoxide monitor/alarm in the bedroom, there is really no downside to this

Cheers mate, i checked with him and he said there were previously a whole host of gas pipes in the kitchen as the cooker was on the opposite side. There is also a radiator close to the sink on the same wall - he doesn't mind doing the place up like new flooring which is probably the worst of it and new kitchen units/tiling/flooring as he wants to sort of get stuff done in one go.

Not to sure about passing the flue through the roof, is it even allowed?

What do you think is the best course of action here? He really does not want to enclose it if he can even if a CO alarm is there next to it

 

[teabreak]

Clearances for flues are a minefield 300mm to the side is the requirement unless recently changed but discharging across a window like the bedroom is not shown in most charts, going up through the roof might cause a problem with any windows in the upper flat.
http://vaillantgroup.intelliresponse.com/glowworm/?interfaceID=3&requestType=NormalRequest&source=3&id=2007&sessionId=138d233e-db2c-11e7-ac9b-6ff16f34bbc2&question=Vaillant+flue+/+air+duct+used+externally+-+maximum+lengths+and+clearance
PS moving a 15 year old boiler is a non starter really, if you find someone to do it chances are he is a cowboy.

 

[Thesmellybuilder]

Clearances for flues are a minefield 300mm to the side is the requirement unless recently changed but discharging across a window like the bedroom is not shown in most charts, going up through the roof might cause a problem with any windows in the upper flat.
http://vaillantgroup.intelliresponse.com/glowworm/?interfaceID=3&requestType=NormalRequest&source=3&id=2007&sessionId=138d233e-db2c-11e7-ac9b-6ff16f34bbc2&question=Vaillant+flue+/+air+duct+used+externally+-+maximum+lengths+and+clearance
PS moving a 15 year old boiler is a non starter really, if you find someone to do it chances are he is a cowboy.

Cheers mate - yeah pretty much the bioler wont be moved and a new one will be installed.

Just stuck on where to place the thing if not the bedroom where it currently is?

Any ideas on what could be done here, outside of placing it outside the property which is not allowed

 

[teabreak]

One of those horrible jobs to site a boiler. The bedroom is really the only option I can see.
No harm in getting some quotes someone may come up with a solution I have not considered.
I presume being terraced the hall cupboard is not an option?

 

[Thesmellybuilder]

One of those horrible jobs to site a boiler. The bedroom is really the only option I can see.
No harm in getting some quotes someone may come up with a solution I have not considered.
I presume being terraced the hall cupboard is not an option?

Yep hall cupboard is a no go to be honest, property is sound though. All properties are terraced here around a few thousand!

I have seen other properties which are the exact same design and they have placed the boiler above the sink, so the flue comes to the left and above the small window - that could be an option? I guess no need to have a freeholder involved then as the flue is simply drilled though the existing brickwork and there is no trouble affecting windows or neighbours as there's nothing above it. Although waste pipe is pretty close to it - but that wont melt!

I've got someone popping by on the weekend, hopefully they can move it around!

I said to the owner i'd be happy with a bad located boiler i.e. bedroom, that works fine and is safe, than a cowboy i can put that anywhere mate job that is unsafe and more hassle than its worth!

 

[longboat]

There's really nothing to worry about (safety wise) having a 15yo boiler sited in a bedroom.
It will be room sealed so only 1 in a million chance of combustion gasses being emitted into the room it's located in.
Noise and space should be his only concern.

 

[Thesmellybuilder]

There's really nothing to worry about (safety wise) having a 15yo boiler sited in a bedroom.
It will be room sealed so only 1 in a million chance of combustion gasses being emitted into the room it's located in.
Noise and space should be his only concern.

The person who owns it would rather move it, i dont think having the boiler where it is an option unless a last resort

 

[Thesmellybuilder]

One of those horrible jobs to site a boiler. The bedroom is really the only option I can see.
No harm in getting some quotes someone may come up with a solution I have not considered.
I presume being terraced the hall cupboard is not an option?

I may have actually found a different solution!

i went and had a look at the place and the bathroom is next to the kitchen, whereby someone has placed an extractor fan right in the vertical red brick arches - these holes are roughly the same size as the one for a boiler flue?

So i’m assuming is it possible to do the same for the kitchen provided the roof is removed as its just a perspex sheet?

or is the extractor fan not supposed to be there anyway and was done in a la cowboy fashion? The previous owner got the place refurbed about 10 years ago but was not onsite for it, only arrived at beginning and end so the builders may have pulled a fast one!

i’ve added a pic of the bathroom extractor fan location see the green arrow

any thoughts on this?

 

[ChrisJP]

Those are brick arches above the windows - instead of lintels. Personally, I'd be wary about opening up big holes in these arches because they support the brickwork above

 

[Thesmellybuilder]

Those are brick arches above the windows - instead of lintels. Personally, I'd be wary about opening up big holes in these arches because they support the brickwork above

Is there anything to be worried about regarding the existing extractor fan which is in that place for the bathroom? The previous owner had would not have done this had they known, it could have been the person prior or the builders during the recent reno 10 years ago.

should it be filled with mortar and the fan placed elsewhere in the bathroom? Or just left alone let sleeping dogs lie?

of course for the boiler I wouldn’t touch the solider bricks as they are in place of lintels - victorian era property