Renewing private water supply from stream up hill

Discussion in 'Eco Talk' started by BCVans, Apr 6, 2019.

  1. BCVans

    BCVans New Member

    We are looking at changing our current set up.
    Chicken wire on pipe in stream to 1000lt holding tank exit pipe has 400 micron filter to 100 micron disk filter before house.
    Holding tank is approximately 40m vertical rise above the house. Current mdpe is 25 mm.

    Current issues:
    Lack of pressure
    Level of turbidity into the house
    Pipe length unknown
    Actual drop unknown

    Need to work out,

    Size of feed pipe down the hill into filtration system? Which one?
    Into reduced diameter pipe to increase pressure. It would be good to get as close to mains pressure as possible without using a pumped system?

    Where can I find the necessary calculations?

    Any thoughts will be appreciated.

    Cheers
     
  2. kiaora

    kiaora Well-Known Member

    Hi
    One thing at a time, if the tank is 40m above outlet, that equates to 4 bar pressure.

    4 bar pressure is plenty.
    Is it the flow that’s the problem, not the pressure ?

    If you are renewing the pipe, this needs to be a bigger pipe, the cost is mainly the Labour and materials.
    So a bigger pipe is not a great deal more
    So , I haven’t looked up the calculation, but, I’d think maybe 50mm or 2” in old money would be fine,

    Good luck
    Peter
     
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  3. BCVans

    BCVans New Member

    Hi Peter, thank you for your response.

    The system has been in situ for a long time, although it's functional some of the pipe work is dated and the tank is split. Currently it requires servicing weekly to maintain a constant flow. Having frozen a few weeks back and the quantity of fine sediment blocks the filter.

    My plan is to dig a sump next to the stream (it's just over a trickle in the summer and sheep are present) to locate the pipe inlet and draw from. I'm looking at replacing the tank and 50mm sounds better to me given the use of appliances in the home which weren't fitted before.

    This is part of the first phase of the project so getting a reliable safe water supply to the house is vital. The internal plumbing will happen in a couple of years, it's suitable for now.

    Now just need to decide on the filtration system. I guess I need to get a water sample assessed and go from there.

    Cheers,
     
  4. kiaora

    kiaora Well-Known Member

    Had a quick look, the charts say around 1” pipe, but an allowance for bends valves etc.
    I’d be inclined to do it once and do it good.

    As for turbidity, installing another settling tank before the main tank would help.

    I was in New Zealand and the property had no mains connected, like a lot of properties in the countryside.

    The rain fall was enough to supply the bungalow.

    The storage was very big, maybe 10,000 lt,
    Because the tank was at ground level, it had a simple pressurised pump set. And no filters ,

    Regards
    Peter
     
  5. BCVans

    BCVans New Member

    My sentiments exactly, do it once do it right. I really need to explore the stream to see if there is a more suitable draw off point. Unfortunately it's not deep and slow moving it's very steep and shallow, the cause of the turbidity especially after heavy rainfall.
     
    kiaora likes this.
  6. kiaora

    kiaora Well-Known Member

    Hi
    I posted previously without seeing your reply,
    I can see the picture better now,
    Do you need water for the live stock,

    If so, and you have access to a digger, I may suggest something like this...

    From stream, to 1000 lt settlement tank then to a 10,000 lt tank, with over flow back to the stream,
    You need to avoid the water getting warm in the summer, and freezing in winter, so burying in the ground will insulate from heat and cold ,also with overflow going back to the stream, a bit of stagnant water avoidance !

    Note, the pipe outlet from the first tank to be at the top of the tank, and feeding the large tank at high level but with a dip tube to low level in tank.
    Then the outlet from this tank above the dip tube outlet,...... hope this makes sense

    Good luck
    Peter
     
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  7. BCVans

    BCVans New Member

    That makes perfect sense.

    The animals don't belong to us but roam the land we draw our water from, hence the need to filter, there is a strong possibility of sheep shut in the water.
     
  8. gas monkey

    gas monkey Well-Known Member

    Hello
     
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  9. Bob Rathbone

    Bob Rathbone Well-Known Member

    The higher up the stream you can collect the water the cleaner it will be and the pipe size can be minimised. You could start with a run of 50mm pipe for 100m or so and then reduce to 25mm as the pressure increases with head to drive the flow. Bury it below the frost penetration and use your idea of a collection tank next to the stream with through soil peculation to provide initial filtering and frost protection.
     
    BCVans likes this.
  10. KIAB

    KIAB Well-Known Member

    And it might be possible to fence a area off where water is extracted to stop sheep accessing it.
     
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  11. kiaora

    kiaora Well-Known Member

    Hi
    Had another thought,
    How about digging a bore hole say 2m from stream, more, if it looks positive, and see if it fills with water say 1m deep ?
    If things look good, install the existing tank, surrounded with stones, with some holes in it,
    The will give water ready screened from debris ?
    And start the pipe work from there,
    As in this fills the big water storage etc.

    that’s maybe, a better way of extracting it, ?

    Good luck
    Peter
     
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  12. KIAB

    KIAB Well-Known Member

    Seen that done with a tractor mounted post borer,drill hole about 3' or so deep & about 6" diameter & hole lined with peforated land drainage pipe, then extaction pipe in hole & backed filled with clean stone & water was pumped to storage tank for filling cow troughs.:)
     
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  13. kiaora

    kiaora Well-Known Member

    Hi kiab
    That’s the sort of thing I was getting at, but, because the “new bore hole” is 40m up the hill, instead of using a sump pump, if we install a tank, then tap off the bottom, you’ll have a screened water supply at 4bar pressure. !
    And it’s below ground level, and will have frost protection
    What do you think ?

    Regards
    Peter
     
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  14. BCVans

    BCVans New Member

    Morning Kiaora, GM, Bob, Kiab,

    Thanks again for the advice.
    I haven't managed to explore further up stream as its extremely steep and lots of windfall trees precariously balanced across.
    It's an awkward site, foot access only and the stream is the boundary of two land owners. Neither our ours although we have historical access rights to draw and access.
    The stream starts a few hundred meters in elevation higher up. I do need to check and see if there is a better site to draw off.

    In the winter it rages and has washed the draw pipe out a few times (not that it's secured well at the moment!) And in the summer it runs enough to keep the tank full.

    I had thought of digging a sump and the idea of using the perforated pipe is a great idea. Only issue could be the amount of slate.

    Will try and upload a photo of the location.
     
  15. KIAB

    KIAB Well-Known Member

    Slate issue can be over come,petrol breaker.
     
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  16. Bob Rathbone

    Bob Rathbone Well-Known Member

    In the UK, Wales at the Towers outdoor pursuit centre run at the time by Wolverhampton Education, they drew the water from a stream up hill. The pipe was laid on the stream bed and secured at the top with a mesh filter. To stop it freezing in the winter they used a kind of electric trace heating, but inside the pipe, they ran a twin cable up through the pipe joined at the top end and using a transformer, passed a current through the cable that made just enough heat to keep the pipe from freezing.
     
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