Replacing bakelite high level toilet cistern with low level alternative.

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by WavyD, Jan 19, 2018.

  1. WavyD

    WavyD New Member


    This is my first post. I'm not a plumber but am trying to order a suitable cistern for a plumber to fit. I'd really appreciate any advice you can offer.

    I have a small narrow toilet room with a window on the rear wall and an old toilet pan is underneath it.

    There is an old high level bakelite cistern high up on one of the side walls. The flush pipe runs down the side wall then down the corner of the side and rear walls, then across the rear wall then into the pan.

    I want to remove this old bakelite cistern and ugly flush pipe placement, and replace it with a more standard low level cistern under the window, behind the toilet pan. I am trying to find a suitable cistern that I can order for a plumber to fit. I'd rather not replace the whole cistern/pan as replacing the pan is likely to mean having to replace the vinyl flooring as well. I think the pan is some kind of ceramic, so I don't want a similar material cistern.

    I'm considering an Ideal Standard Waverley low level cistern available on Screwfix, but looking on its product page on the Ideal Standard website, the installation diagram suggests it would need to be fitted higher than I can because my window is too low. I need to fit it about 10cm lower than the diagram suggests. I spoke with Ideal Standard's customer care team and asked if the vertical end of the supplied flush pipe can be cut shorter to fit the cistern lower on the wall. They said no, the cistern has to be at the height specified in the diagram. I appreciate that setting the cistern 10cm lower will reduce the fall, but does it seem that they are being too fussy to you?

    As an alternative, I'm considering getting an Ideal Standard Tempo close coupled cistern available on Screwfix and, even though it is a close coupled cistern, fitting it up on the wall with a flush pipe instead. Ideal Standard's customer care team, however, said I can't do this and that it had to be fitted close coupled. If we can find a flush pipe that can be fitted to the close coupled cistern's flush valve thread, then why can't we use one of these cisterns without placing it close coupled? Again, is Ideal Standard's care team being to fussy?

    Thanks very much for taking the time to read my post even if you can't help.

  2. KIAB

    KIAB Well-Known Member

    Got a photo of the layout.

    Sometimes when changing from a high level cistern to a low one is difficult as toilet could be set closer to the wall, so your new cistern will then protrude too far forward, obstructing the seat from being raised & you sitting on it.

    It is sometime easier to fit a new complete close couple toilet, all depends how & where you soil is.
  3. WillyEckerslike

    WillyEckerslike Well-Known Member

    There's probably asbestos in the old cistern. That's not a problem at all just don't go smashing it up in the kitchen at the same time someone is making bread...... You might also find that your local tip will want to charge you to dispose of it.
  4. retiredsparks

    retiredsparks Well-Known Member

    Mr we all know...toilet seats must never left in the UP position... so there is no point in it being able to.
  5. Dr Bodgit

    Dr Bodgit Well-Known Member

    Asbestos disposal is typically available at major recycling centres free of charge, but must be double wrapped. Best call them before going to check on conditions.
  6. WavyD

    WavyD New Member

    Hi all

    Thanks for your input.

    Here are photos of the situation...

    20180119_161936 (Large).jpg

    20180119_162019 (Large).jpg

    The walls are due to be stripped to brick and re-plastered due to damp, so this is why I'm dealing with the cistern now. We were aware about the bakelite cistern containing asbestos which is one of the reasons we are getting rid of it. The decorators are handling the disposal. The blue masking tape is me just trying to get an idea how the Ideal Standard Waverley might look.

    Thankfully, there is enough space to fit a cistern of about 22cm depth without the seat falling forward.

    I have now found a ceramic option by Burlington which they call a Close Coupled/Low level Cistern 51cm. This cistern appears not to mind whether it is used close coupled or at low level so it should be OKto fit it at a height that fits for us. Unfortunately, it's water inlet is on the bottom right, whereas the Ideal Standard cisterns are on the bottom left. A left inlet works better for us as there are already supply pipes currently on the left of the toilet which supply the bathroom next door. I presume the plumber would be able to feed a supply from the left to the inlet on the right but it would be uglier.

    The fact that this Burlington cistern doesn't care whether you fit it close coupled or low level makes me feel that Ideal Satandard are being fussy when advising that their Waverley can't be fitted lower, or their Tempo can't be fitted non close coupled. I'd appreciate any of your opinions.

    Thanks again

  7. Toby10

    Toby10 New Member

    Hi David

    I have the exact same issue as you had. How did you manafe to resolve it?

  8. terrymac

    terrymac Well-Known Member

    David was never seen again !
    Why he didn't just go and buy a close coupled WC and cistern ( available from around sixty quid, more if you feel like splashing out) I will never know. Maybe he did !
    just pumps likes this.
  9. Toby10

    Toby10 New Member

    Whag do I use to connect a close coupled wc to the soil pipe on the floor
  10. terrymac

    terrymac Well-Known Member

    An angled pan connector.

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