Replacing bargeboards and facia with UPVC

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by ShabbaPlanks, Feb 3, 2007.

  1. ShabbaPlanks

    ShabbaPlanks Member

    How do
    I am planning some home renovation for summer, the facias and barge boards have rotted at all the corners. This is due to the guttering having dropped at the ends, losing the slope and channeling the water to the corners. Even with regular cleaning the gutters build up so much **** over winter as we back onto a forest and with nesting birds that the weight has been to much for the UV degraded clips.
    I feel confident to undertake the work myself as I have covered traditional roofing in college and enjoyed it as a subject. So barge boards facias and soffits should be a doddle right ? ;)
    There is a small lean to at the front over what used to be the garage and I will get to grips with this before I order all materials and get scaffolders in.
    My question is should I repair timber and then clad with UPVC or go for one of the systems that would completly replace the existing timber.
    Also any tips for fitting UPVC as I have no experience with this product, ie / pilot holes, should they be slightly oversised to allow for expansion? Or is UPVC stable.
    If anyone could provide some enlightening links or share their experience I would be grateful.
  2. don't overcover the old wooden the lot off and replace with upvc boards
  3. deadonmate

    deadonmate New Member

    This site has a basic installation guide. No it's not easy as you might think definitely better left to the pros, Yes upvc does expand and contract.

    Removing old wooden soffit and fascias is an even more difficult installation, depending on what the roof covering is you might have the whole lot come down as some coverings rest on the fascia.

    Good Luck
  4. yorkshireboy

    yorkshireboy Member

    If the timber is only rotten at the corners put the upvc over the timber.As deadonmate says when you pull of the fascia you disturb the tiles/slates.
    In most cases when you try to remove the facsia it is sounder than you think
  5. starlight tiles

    starlight tiles New Member

    strip the lot back mate.only cowboys go over the old stuff.
  6. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    Nah. If the majority of the timber is sound, leave it there and repair the worst. Treat all bare repairs whatever with generous treatment lkie cuprinol wood preserver.

    So that's as good as removing all and replacing wood.

    Then clad over.

    No pilot holes in upvc. Plastic headed polypins straight in. Ensure to seal all possible water/rain entries like the gable undercloak meeting, all the way down to edge of box end.

    Re-protect the top of timber fascias with dpc between it and the tiles/felt. Cut the fascia 5mm shorter than height of timber(angle of tiles will meet it well) but only a mm short at gable end piece(for silicon sealant).

    Glue (silicon) corner and joiner pieces, and at least one pin(this one will need a hole first or it may crack if you try to nail it without).

    Allow room for expansion(especially now it's cold) in any joins.

    decide for yourself how many or what form of ventilation you may want(or need). 75mm round vents in soffit(about every metre) or continuous pre-vented grill in solid board.

    There's some to be going on with.

    Mr. HandyAndy - really
  7. ShabbaPlanks

    ShabbaPlanks Member

    Thanks for the replys,
    two for ripping out and two for cladding.

    Thanks for the link Deadon and the advice, I was not aware of this as I have yet to witness a roof being tiled. I am about a month away from finishing college and have no site experience. It is also unlikely that I will gain site experience for another year or so as I hope to transfer my ICA to an NVQ via OSAT. To cover the NVQ criteria I will need to find an attic conversion firm or the like.
    Still I am confident in my ability to undertake the job and to complete to a high standard in an efficiant manner.
    What I mean to say is that it needs doing and we cannot afford to pay for a firm and its overheads to do a job that I can most certainly master with a lot of fore thought and planning. :)

    Yorkshireboy, are you saying just to clad without removing existing rot? That is not an option on the table. Rot is rot.

    I am going to have to remove a metre of material on the fascia and bargeboard at all points to remove existing rot, so it would'nt be a hardship to do that and then clad. Cost and asthetics will be the deciding factor.
    I will have to do the maths and get some qoutes on scaffolding and a quote from the pros to fit, then I can come to descision.
    Thanks chaps
  8. big all

    big all Screwfix Select

    you have two thicknesses 9mm cladding and 18mm structural

    you should remove all rotten material in the cladding option replace with sound timber with no gaps [the odd unsuported 12" gap wont matter as 9mm will support a gutter bracket on its own] use the 40mm white topped nails as near to the joists as possible otherwise they will bounce and bend

    idealy you need 2 people as the long lenghts will sag and flex stopping easy fitting

    big all
  9. ShabbaPlanks

    ShabbaPlanks Member

    Cheers Handy and BA
    Looks like it will be about a third cheaper to clad rather than replace thats if I replaced with 17mm as opposed to 22mm. At 22mm the saving is to great to justify the cost of complete replacement. I guess 22mm would be uncalled for anyway.
    All my street had theyre roofs set out in the same manner, but some who have had UPVC fitted have had better results than others (astheticaly speaking). Its dark now but the main differance seems to be with the soffits and bargeboard ends ( box ends? ).
    Venting at the mo is provided via airbricks, soffits are laid right up into the rafter ends/ eaves and follow the pitch of the roof. I will probably go for a full vented board and bring the soffit down level with the bottom of fascia.
    I will scour the street tomorrow to get some idea of what I hope to acheive. A bit more research and I should be able to come back with more specific questions.
    What precautions can I take against dislodging tiles when removing existing fascia, what would you chaps do when removing fascia along a whole length?
    Thanks again
  10. yorkshireboy

    yorkshireboy Member

    If there is a lot of rot the problem could be the felt.
    The old bitumen felt always degrades at the bottom,when you remove the facsia this brittle felt will probably fall to bits.If you are going to take of the fascia you need to remove the bottom course,or two of tiles,and replace with dpc up to the first lath.
    Unless the fascia is really rotten,attend to the felt and board over,replacing the badly rotten section.
    Don,t forget that this is wet rot not dry,it will not spread anywhere once you stop the damp

    In my opinion its preferable to have a timber fascia rather than a plastic one.If you had to replace I would use timber and clad over.
  11. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    Spot on yorkshire.

    Depending on your tile system(if you decide to rip down all timber)you could push back all the first row of tiles.

    They will be nailed though, but you may be lucky in that the second row might not me, so you can push those back, remove the first row nails then push them back. This will give you the room to fit new (not felt-well you can use felt but dpc is better)plastic dpc back to the first batten and to overlap the fascia. Remember to re-nail them when all finished.

    But I think with the amount of rot you have mentioned, a repair and clad over is in order.

    One thing to think about if going down the 18mm solid upvc complete replace all fascia, is you will be fixing this ONLY to the rafter ends(and it's not like the timber where you can bash in a few extra nails and fill and paint over) so your fixing must be spot on first time.

    That fixed fascia also has to take the weight of the tiles and the guttering, but not so when fixing the cappit to the existing timber fascia, as the weight is still taken by the timber.

    Mr. HandyAndy - really
  12. ShabbaPlanks

    ShabbaPlanks Member

    Cheers HA YB
    Definately wont be going down the replacment route, due to your advice and outlay.
    I need to get up on a ladder and inspect the roof, will give me a chance to inspect felt and the condition of the timber. Will borrow my neighbours ladder hopefully.:)
    I will get some photos up on the web somewhere as I will document this for a portfolio of work. Might come in handy.
    I had allways presumed that the first row would be held by the first batton and not the fascia. When you say supported, do you mean that it supports the tiles between the rafters or is it intended to stop the tiles slipping forward?
    I will identify the tile/slate used and come back to you Andy, as I am unfamiluar with the differant tile products. Best description I can give is red clay and interlocking, which dont appear to be nailed...but could well be. Again need to get up and inspect detail.
    I will have a few questions for my tutor tomorrow,
    Thanks again for every ones input, grateful as allways
  13. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    When you look at your gable end, end on so to speak, you will see that the first tile at the bottom kicks up.

    The fascia along the front is at this height and supports those tiles.

    Remove the fascia and the tiles will drop down and only be held by the nails in the batten.

    This can crack the tiles, or the nails can pull through, so you could lose the tiles to the ground.

    Mr. HandyAndy - really
  14. bigjules

    bigjules New Member

    Which ever way you decide to go, (both new uPVC and over-cladding have their own relative merits), this is not a one man and a ladder job.
    18 ft (5.0mm) lengths of uPVC will flex and bend like you wouldn't believe - when I replaced the fascias etc on my own house, I hired 2 towers and a couple of 14' Youngmans stagings for the weekend and enlisted a mates' help.
    Not cheap, I know, but a damn site safer than working off a ladder.
  15. Biffo

    Biffo Member

    theres better stuff to use .instead of damp course .
    Ask your supplied for EPS eaves protection system .
    Its 1.5 metres long by 400 i think, it has a kick in it to fall into gutter
    just slides up under the tile

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