Replacing modern ceiling rose with chandelier

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by tomosap, Mar 15, 2018.

  1. tomosap

    tomosap Member

    Hi all,

    I’ve been asked by someone to replace a modern ceiling rose (the screw-on surface mounted type with the live/neutral/earth terminals) with an older chandelier (photo attached)

    The current ceiling rose has 5 live wires, 1 large comes into the side, 1 goes to the bulb housing, and three come into the centre which I believe are part of the circuit that goes to the next rose.

    Just wanted to confirm that I can cap off the three centres using a screw cap, and use a connector block to feed the single live and single neutral of the chandelier, and screw cap all the earths together.

    Another alternative I was thinking of was to use the original ceiling fitting and cut the plastic away and fit the new chandelier over the top of it.

    Grateful for your thoughts and guidance.

    Many thanks,
    Tom
     

    Attached Files:

  2. 14th edition

    14th edition Well-Known Member

    You will need to connect the switch line and neutral [and earth] to the the chandelier. Thats the easy bit.... The three lives in the centre block need to remain connected together but often the issue is the space to put the connector block. The neutrals also go into a block as well as the switch line [live when switch is operated] but space can be tight. Make sure things are not squashed together!
     
  3. DIYDave.

    DIYDave. Screwfix Select

    If you have access above the fitting, ie a loft, then you can neatly terminate the wires from the ceiling rose into a 4 terminal junction box, then run a short length of flex to the chandelier and connect with a 3 way choc bloc

    If no access, then make connections using a 4 way choc bloc tucked into the base of the chandelier. you’ve got the wiring sussed, just keep it all neat and tidy, no bare copper on show, all earths sleeved, nice tight terminations

    Importantly, the live that connects to live of chandelier (more correctly known as switched live or line) should be identified with a short length of coloured sleeving, either red or brown, depending on the age of your wiring

    Don’t mix up this switched live or you will have problems

    Nice neon screwdriver by the way ..... you look like a pro :D
     
  4. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    Yuk.. Do this with it, and wash your hands afterwards!

    neonamnesty.jpg
     
  5. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    No way, neon screwdrivers are very good second safety devices, I know with a clamp on ammeter you can detect a borrowed neutral, but you need to get the jaws around the wire, and often there is simply not enough room, using a neon screwdriver if some one has borrowed a neutral there is a chance it will show you as your disconnecting and save one from a nasty shock.

    I know you should not borrow neutrals, however I have actually seen where at some point the up and down stairs lighting has been separated, this has caused a borrowed neutral, when the consumer unit was changed the electrician found the borrowed neutral, however rather than correcting, he put both up stairs and down stairs MCB's on the same RCD, so even when he knew he had a borrowed neutral he did not correct it.

    As a result I always use a neon screwdriver when working on lights, you can test for dead and test the tester in a proving unit, but it will not detect a borrowed neutral, but the basic neon screwdriver will, therefore one should encourage there use as a second string to ones bow. Yes not a primary tester, but a very good safety device.
     
    seneca likes this.
  6. DIYDave.

    DIYDave. Screwfix Select


    You know my comment was slightly tongue in cheek eh Bazza :confused:

    (But for identifying switch live, as is a common problem when not sleeved, it will do the job, no denying the fact) ........ sorry couldn’t resist ......o_O
     
  7. seneca

    seneca Screwfix Select

    Agreed MGW, in the right hands they're very useful.
     
  8. tomosap

    tomosap Member

    Didn't realise the use of that screwdriver would cause so much debate :) the only reason I used it was because it was the only one I had to hand that was the right size for the screws :)

    Hope that clears up any misconceptions lol
     

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