Replacing oven...help

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Ban90, May 12, 2019.

  1. Ban90

    Ban90 New Member

    Thanks. So to spur a single socket for the oven from the ccu as suggested should same thickness cable as existing be used.
     
  2. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Yes I think it would be safe. The reason is, the oven and hob are fixed loads. Neither would overload the circuit because they can't, its electrically impossible. In the event of a short circuit a massive current is generated which would trip any fuse of any rating on the circuit.
     
  3. kitfit1

    kitfit1 Well-Known Member

    Exactly. There really are far to many sparks on this forum that only look to the regs and not common sense. If you have just spent say £600/£1000 on a hob that comes with a captive lead and a 13Amp plug on the end, then why the hell would you cut the plug off and then hardwire it into a cooker connection point. Yes it protects the supply cable........................but gives no protection at all to the new hob/oven itself.
     
  4. peter palmer

    peter palmer Well-Known Member

    Sounds logical but I'll wager that a 32A MCB would trip well before a 13A fuse blows. MCB's are super efficient at disconnecting faults.
     
  5. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    I agree there are too many sparks who only look at Regs. but you are not an electrician so your theory is not correct and common sense does not apply. Appliances use electricity and most appliances are supplied with a cable, usually a flex, to connect that appliance to the circuit. Plugs are a convenient way of doing that but there are only two fuses used in a plug, either 3A or 13A. There are other fuses available but those are the most common. So to prevent people putting in the wrong fuse they may just be saying use a 13A not a lower rated one. Secondly a fuse is always used to protect circuit cables. Components within an appliance are not protected. If individual components were deemed necessary to be protected then the manufacturer would install their own fuses. Its a myth that fuses protect the appliance, that is not the primary reason for the fuse in the plug. If the appliance goes faulty then the circuit has to be protected from the fault, the appliance will just stop working. The relationship between the fuses in the line does not determine which one will blow to cut the power. Quite often both the plug fuse and the circuit fuse will go, there is no pattern. What is the point of protecting the appliance? What are you protecting it from? The wires supplying it are the important things to protect, the appliance is just drawing electrical current through them, there is no point in protecting the appliance is there!
     
  6. Alster

    Alster Member

    So what’s the point of fused plugs then??
     
  7. Alster

    Alster Member

    Take a cooker hood for example- bulb goes bang with a 13a fuse normally takes out the pcb. With a 5a fuse it normally just blows the fuse.
     
  8. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    To protect the flex they are attached to. Don't you read what I said?
     
  9. spinlondon

    spinlondon Well-Known Member

    If the element on my kettle goes, I want the fuse to protect the on/off switch and the neon, so I know they still work when I through the kettle in the bin.
    Others want the fuse to prevent the lead from over heating and causing a fire.
     
  10. robertpstubbs

    robertpstubbs Active Member

    I remember my father going to the hardware store to buy a replacement element for his kettle. I think it was about £15 for an element compared with about £30 for a new RH kettle. The £15 saving was a lot of money then.

    When I had the element go on a Dualit kettle I was disappointed you couldn’t buy a new element (it’s integrated into the base) although I believe you can still buy replacement elements for their dearer toasters.
     
  11. Alster

    Alster Member

    Surely most appliances are a fixed load??
     
  12. Alster

    Alster Member

    Surely most appliances are a fixed load??
     
  13. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    It doesn't matter, the fuse in the plug is not for protecting the appliance. Appliances don't need protecting they just use the electricity and draw whatever current they are designed at. It is hoped that when there is a fault in the appliance the fuse in the plug breaks before the circuit one does in order to minimize the disruption, but that may not always happen. It is a myth that fuses protect the appliance, that is not its purpose.
     
  14. Bazza

    Bazza Well-Known Member

    Indeed. If you look at our continental neighbours. A kettle there will be plugged (unfused plug) into a 16A radial circuit.
     
  15. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Really? I didn't know that Bazza. It does make you wonder why the UK goes to all these extra measures.
     
  16. Alster

    Alster Member

    Don’t want to argue- let’s agree to differ!!!!
     
  17. Bazza

    Bazza Well-Known Member

    It’s because the regs state that thou shalt have a fuse. Probably correctly as, without a fuse, our toaster/kettle would only have the 32A fuse in the CU as the protection!
     
  18. robertpstubbs

    robertpstubbs Active Member

    It’s a while since I’ve been abroad, but I still have various European and American cables and most don’t even have an earth wire.
     
  19. Ban90

    Ban90 New Member

    So just to clarify if the oven was connected straight to the 32 amp circuit would there be a risk of the cable overheating/melting and if the fuse was there this would protect the cable from doing so?
     
  20. Comlec

    Comlec Well-Known Member

    Simply put, protection from fault or overload is required when the current carrying capacity of a cable changes within a circuit. There are other regs to consider but that is why we have fuses/mcbs in circuits.

    This diagram may help explain.
    upload_2019-5-15_12-10-18.png
     
    unphased and Ban90 like this.

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