Discussion in 'Kitchen Fitters' Talk' started by MadWayne, Nov 15, 2021.

  1. MadWayne

    MadWayne New Member

    Anyone out there do reports on kitchens fitted by other companies and if so what is the cost.
  2. woodbutcherbower

    woodbutcherbower Well-Known Member

    I take it that you're not happy? Care to post some pics?
  3. MadWayne

    MadWayne New Member

    Unfortunately I can't, I need expert opinions in a formal report and quotes to put right.
    This apparently cant be done without a site visit, to be fair they have sent out one expert from a a group that deals with representing businesses and insurance companies, the report hasn't reached us yet but we were told it was inconclusive (initially refused the report and they now appear to be stalling in my opinion (after a more formal request for the report is when they suggested it was inconclusive, but still not presented the report to us) but I will have to get a more professional opinion on that tomorrow). In my opinion there is no reason to withhold a report unless you are trying to hide something, especially one that is alleged to be inconclusive.

    This issue isn't that there isn't a fault, its more of who is responsible for the fault, ie manufacturer, installer , dare I say end user.

    All I want is it solving, but experts that do reports seem to be very rare these days unless they represent the other side. All this is doing is delaying things getting finished.

    Thanks for taking the time to respond.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2021
  4. woodbutcherbower

    woodbutcherbower Well-Known Member

    OK, I understand. It's impossible to give a valid response without knowing exactly what the problem is - but it sounds like it's more than a slight scratch on a cupboard door. Any chance of a bit of a clue regarding what the major issue is? And where are you based?
  5. MadWayne

    MadWayne New Member

    Trying to work out how to phrase.

    okay here goes.

    How would you dent a stainless steel sink along the bottom of the bowls back edged, dent going up into the bowl rather than down into the cupboard.
    What are the different ways to cause damage to a work top, that say leave a faded plain image, but doesnt actually physically leave an indentation.

    For example if you put a hot pan on a laminate worktop, you get a ring around where the pan was and physical indent and brown burn marks and blistering possibly, but it certainly cant be attributed to that.

    Not the only issues these are the most important to be rectified as it stands.
  6. woodbutcherbower

    woodbutcherbower Well-Known Member

    Obviously impossible to give anything other than an educated guess without being there. But ......

    A dent in a stainless steel sink is usuallly caused by transit damage, or by the fitter dropping it, or by something heavy and solid being dropped on it when it was sitting upside-down. Many low-cost sinks at the bottom end of the price range are wafer-thin and are thus more susceptible to damage. The key issue is exactly when you spotted it, and (more to the point) did you actually see it in perfect condition as it came out of the packaging?

    Potential damage to worktops is almost entirely a function of what they're made of, and what colour they are. Laminate - as above, plus localised heat such as a blowtorch or heat gun. They can can also be damaged by certain solvents (xylene from solvent-based woodstain, methylene chloride or benzyl alcohol from paint stripper, methyl ethyl ketone from pipe-welding cement and so on). Bubbling laminate over a chipboard core can be caused by water - either poor storage or by accident. If the image you refer to has always been there, faulty manufacture is a possible cause.

    Solid timber - absorption of spillages on the surface prior to oiling (wood stain, red wine, anything which is liquid and strongly-coloured). A black ring can develop if something wet is left on the surface for an extended period of time. Burn and scorch marks from localised heat. Most/all of the above can be sanded out if it hasn't penetrated too deeply, though.

    Solid surface (acrylics, natural stone) - as above for absorption, plus localised heat.

    The above list isn't anywhere near exhaustive, but they're the most common ones.
  7. jonathanc

    jonathanc Screwfix Select

    Leave the manufacturer out of it. The contractual issue is between you and the supplier. Follow the consumer rights act. Within the first 6 months the supplier has to prove it is not faulty. After six months the burden of proof is on you to prove faulty
  8. MadWayne

    MadWayne New Member

    exactly and the fault reported well within that time frame, but you cant obstruct the retailer either as doing so could influence the judge against you apparently if it goes that far. It is a bloody mess the whole process.

    I have no idea about sink thickness but its a branded sink (or should be) I guess it be spec'd at a certain thickness, even then, define cheap, having looked at the spec it should be 0.9mm 20 gauge its middle of the range in thickness according to site I have just looked at. Certainly didn't see it until after the sink was in and didn't seethe dints until viewing the sink in a certain light within few weeks of it being used. Kitchen wasnt in a useable state as far as we were concerned till over 2 months from the start installation date . The actual install has dragged out its never been signed off as complete, so the question is where the 6 months start, but either way still within 3 months from it being started.

    Think its disgraceful how the company involved is currently dealing with it and by the time due process has been finished I wouldn't be surprised if its older than 6 months.

    None of this gets the kitchen finished to be honest and realistically that will be the new year at the earliest at this rate.

    However a formal report commissioned would be better.

    Solvents, only water has been anywhere near, and as for solvent based materials we opt for water based and have done for many years.

    There has been damage to other things as a result of fitters handling, but without a video of them doing it couldn't say which fitter it was, but certainly wasn't anyone other than the kitchen fitters.

    When it is resolved one way or the other I will update.
  9. MadWayne

    MadWayne New Member

    Thanks for your contributions its appreciated.
  10. MadWayne

    MadWayne New Member

    Also say something cold was placed on the work top out of the fridge or the freezer would you expect this to cause issues, given my age i have had worktops before in multiple houses, but thought i would ask experts.
  11. jonathanc

    jonathanc Screwfix Select

    no. actually you would normally expect to place items from a fridge or freezer onto a worktop so if they are saying it has damaged it due to cold then frankly the worktop is not fit for purpose by their own admission
  12. MadWayne

    MadWayne New Member

    well we believe the only possible way the worktop could be marked in the fashion it is, is that a certain well used item from the fridge was placed on the work top, indeed it is the only item we have placed directly on the work top in the general vicinity of the mark and it appears to be a uncanny match for the mark. So much so I would say its the most likely cause (but must be a coincidence, or unfit for purpose), although we have been told its impossible already but not a formal report to support it.
  13. MadWayne

    MadWayne New Member

    Okay, the manufacturer says that the mark was caused by some kind scrubbing motion with a cloth according to the snippets from the report, now as I cant show the mark on here. I am wondering what cloth and scrubbing motion would create such a mark.

    Now I have had my own house since 1996, several worktops of the laminate variety in three different houses and never once have I needed to scrub a work top, even when i had lodgers in my first house certainly had to wipe a few worktopsdown and we certainly have never scrubbed a worktop including this one. We have effectively 3 areas of worktop currently in this kitchen and only one with a mark. We have used the same materials as we have always done to wipe down a laminate work top.

    Now obviously it be our word against there's.

    Now if I believe the snippets of the report provided by the installer which is a concern in its self. Mainly because I expect each report to be in a singular document that is not added to, but can't comment on either report as not seen them as individual reports. it looks like a combined document.

    Now apparently the manufacturer have offered the installation company a free replacement as goodwill to the installation company but the installation company don't want to fit it.

    I know we haven't scrubbed the work top with anything and surely if something had scrubbed enough to take the surface off in the shape of this mark there would be lines consistent with the cloth used and you should feel a difference in texture going between the different surfaces ie going across the worktop and either side of the mark.

    What are your thoughts, opinions on possible causes.

    Whilst I have some experience in the manufacture of coatings many years ago I don't recall anything specific on work top coatings, but do remember draw down tests and film forming temperatures and other properties, maybe I can see if any of my ex colleagues are still around that maybe able to help, but suspect many of them have passed on now.
  14. Bilton

    Bilton New Member

  15. Bilton

    Bilton New Member

    Perhaps the fitter spilled some Mitre mate glue on the worktop. If this happens and is wiped clean even straight away will leave a cloudy mark on it. The only way to get it off is to use superglue remover.
    Might be worth a try.

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