H
HarDeBloodyHarHar
Guest
Are you Rumpelstiltskin?
You also included incorrect puntuation, a double negative and a spelling mistake in one short paragraph which kind of proves my point.![]()
There is no double-negative!
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Are you Rumpelstiltskin?
You also included incorrect puntuation, a double negative and a spelling mistake in one short paragraph which kind of proves my point.![]()
If it's not Rumpelstiltskin is it Ftumch?Then that statement is fake news. !!!!
Not knowing my name means you can not say you never write it.
Bluddy 'ell. Yer've dug around for that one...If it's not Rumpelstiltskin is it Ftumch?
Came into my head instantly, finding the correct spelling took longer.Bluddy 'ell. Yer've dug around for that one...![]()
Was that because it's generally empty?Came into my head instantly,![]()
I said I voted for it, not that I wanted it. Politics is a funny thing, we have to pick the route that ticks most of the boxes for us, a leaving vote for me won by a narrow margin, so I voted leave. What I would have preferred was for the EU to change, to move away from the Federation it was becoming and be more of a trading community, remember the 'Common Market?' I don't like RM, he is not to be trusted, but the EU must change or it will become a monster that rivals all of the demons you list above. We have tried to initiate change from within, and failed miserably, for me their is no option but to leave and show others the way for the future. Perhaps that may open some eyes and initiate the change required before it's too late for the EU.Sorry, Bob, I am not agreeing with you whole-heartedly, or close. Yes, globalisation/free-market/capitalism whatever you want to call it might not care, but the folk who have a say in it can, and some do.
Hence one of the biggest pluses of the EU; it had the size, power, clout, wherewithal and the political will to develop wealth alongside a conscience; tell me that it hasn't had a moral political compass; promoting (insisting on) environmental concerns, workers rights, human rights, distribution of wealth, developing free trade, freedom of pretty much everything.
Now tell me what a Moggish UK will be like in comparison? Tell me that Fox will give a damn about any of these values as he sinks through his a*** to get a 'deal'. ANY deal. With ANYBODY. On THEIR terms.
Just like Trump.
The environment can take a hike. Wealth distribution ditto. Tribalism rools. Honesty and decency doesn't have a look-in.
The UK - living under Trump's armpit. Shudder.
And you asked for it.
Dreary dreary you.Was that because it's generally empty?![]()
I said I voted for it, not that I wanted it. Politics is a funny thing, we have to pick the route that ticks most of the boxes for us, a leaving vote for me won by a narrow margin, so I voted leave. What I would have preferred was for the EU to change, to move away from the Federation it was becoming and be more of a trading community, remember the 'Common Market?' I don't like RM, he is not to be trusted, but the EU must change or it will become a monster that rivals all of the demons you list above. We have tried to initiate change from within, and failed miserably, for me their is no option but to leave and show others the way for the future. Perhaps that may open some eyes and initiate the change required before it's too late for the EU.
Spot on Bob. The leavers have consistently pointed out the advantages of leaving, all the remainers can do is concoct artificial facts to discredit leaving. The leavers have shown good debating skills by not going on about the huge disadvantages of remaining.I said I voted for it, not that I wanted it. Politics is a funny thing, we have to pick the route that ticks most of the boxes for us, a leaving vote for me won by a narrow margin, so I voted leave. What I would have preferred was for the EU to change, to move away from the Federation it was becoming and be more of a trading community, remember the 'Common Market?' I don't like RM, he is not to be trusted, but the EU must change or it will become a monster that rivals all of the demons you list above. We have tried to initiate change from within, and failed miserably, for me their is no option but to leave and show others the way for the future. Perhaps that may open some eyes and initiate the change required before it's too late for the EU.
What are the advantages of leaving and the disadvantages of leaving?Spot on Bob. The leavers have consistently pointed out the advantages of leaving, all the remainers can do is concoct artificial facts to discredit leaving. The leavers have shown good debating skills by not going on about the huge disadvantages of remaining.
Harry.
No one knows, so much spin and lies have been used that the truth is difficult, if not impossible to find. We must follow our own hearts (and gut feelings) on this and accept that others may have different views without trying to rubbish or belittle them.What are the advantages of leaving and the disadvantages of leaving?
Allsorts, You are very passionate about this issue, OK I understand that. The issue I try to make about the 'monster' is not yet factual but it is extrapolated from the behaviour of man and the effect that power has on man. ANY organisation that wields immense power, be it Trump or the EU, must be held responsible for the use of that power by the electorate, that is Democracy. Unfortunately the ability of one EU state to Veto the others is not an example of democracy in the true sense. It is issues such as this that need to be resolved within the EU to prevent it becoming that monster. After Mrs May's appearance on TV today I see trouble ahead.
Exactly Bob.No one knows, so much spin and lies have been used that the truth is difficult, if not impossible to find. We must follow our own hearts (and gut feelings) on this and accept that others may have different views without trying to rubbish or belittle them.
May should be hung as a traitor...along with all politicians who are not actively carrying out the will of the people via referendum.
I would be happy to put the rope around her scraggy neck myself.
RS
Exactly Bob.
Yes, I am very passionate about this issue, Bob, because it transcends politics and economics; it's about values, and the type of world we want for our kids.
Thank you for accepting that the monster you fear is not yet factual, but forgive me if I have to disagree that it's a certainty. (I'll also have to strongly disagree with how to make this monster less of a certainty).
We, as the human race in relatively civilised countries, have been moving in one direction over hundreds of years and that's towards peace, shared values, empathy, care for the weakest, support for those who need it, free trade, equal rights, democracy, environmental improvements, sustainability, and other quite nifty things. This has been very hard won as we all appreciate at this most poignant of moments as we commemorate the ending of the 'Great' War, one which was started by a silly little beggar called Princip getting a lucky shot at an Archduke who took a silly wrong turning, and the subsequent escalation of hostilities which culminated in approaching 20 million deaths due to nothing less than false pride.
And don't get me started on Hitler...
Are you unaware of the 'Long Peace'? Are you unaware of what binds countries to work closely together so that the threat of conflict now is virtually incontemplatabubble?
You fear that monster, and so do I. I think our decisions now must therefore come down to what is going to make it less likely?
My take - backed by history and social & political science ('The Better Angels of our Nature', for example) - is that a unified Europe with GB on board to keep help keep extremism in check is a far better option than a fractured EU where each country has to go it alone, forge their own deals, fight over trade, fall back on Nationalism, build up their individual armies for security.
You know - exactly what Trump is doing right now.
Bob, please consider this for a second - this is what many Leavers on this forum have said they wanted; GB leaves 'hard' which will also damage the EU to the extent that it hopefully ultimately breaks up - that is what some of the u-s on here have said they want.
Say they get their wish - now imagine a non-EU Germany with a nationalist, right-wing Chancellor in charge. A German Trump as it were.
Will you sleep more comfortably at night?
Compare that with the current unified - and expanding - EU where the combined populations, united under democracy and shared values, can put a check on any such miscreant 'monster'.
(Some political commentators in Greece are fearful of GB leaving as that will have the immediate effect of increasing Germany's power and control).
Seems we want the same thing, Bob - but have polar-opposite ideas on how to achieve it. That's so weird, huh?!![]()