Rings

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by dingbat, Sep 3, 2009.

  1. dingbat

    dingbat New Member

    Yet again, a protracted discussion about modifying ring final circuits has erupted on the forum.

    And yet again, sparks can't agree.

    Ring final circuits are evil; sparks don't understand them, don't know how to test them (ask any 2391 trainer), don't understand the design principles, so don't install them correctly... and for decades it's been the blind leading the blind.

    Rings were introduced to solve a problem that didn't actually exist. And now that imaginary problem is 60 years old an our use of electricity has changed way beyond what was imagined back then,

    Ban 'em. Ban 'em all.
     
  2. sparky Si-Fi

    sparky Si-Fi Screwfix Select

    Good morning Dave!

    Yes mate, have to agree, ring final is ok in our hands,but,

    Along comes incompetent individual, starts rodgering then (usual case) ring final is broken and leaving possible overcurrent issue!

    Radials easier to test, easier to fault find (non-functioning socket oultet is the start of the fault for instance in case of busted conductors. . .

    Give me regards to the 'fat' man ;)

    Si!
     
  3. JP.

    JP. Screwfix Select

    The trouble with Radial Finals is that say the first socket CPC is lost, then everything upstream has no earth..ditto fot L + N.

    Viva la Ring Finals..:)
     
  4. dingbat

    dingbat New Member

    This is very easy to resolve.

    I have conducted extensive research and my [scientifically accurate] conclusion is this:

    If you defend the use of ring final circuits as the de-facto standard for domestic socket-outlet circuits, then you fall into the category of 'electrician' who ought to be re-classified as semi-skilled.
     
  5. fergus dangerfield

    fergus dangerfield New Member

    I say dingbat, thats a bit harsh!
     
  6. roukel01

    roukel01 New Member

    hmm,

    nothing wrong with a ring circuit if you're experienced and qualified in desiging and erecting such a circuit, if the only argument is that "Electricians" don't understand them and are unsure how to test them, then my opinion is this.. its time for these people to look at another career. These circuits should only be worked on by people who know what they are doing.

    I wouldn't go out and buy a haynes manual for my car and then attempt to **** about with my brakes! That job is for a trained Mechanic.

    Both radials and rings have their uses and adbantages/disadvantages and to simply say "ban Em ban Em" is nonscense
     
  7. Maurice Gogg

    Maurice Gogg New Member

    What kind of car do you have roukel?
     
  8. Lokkars Daisy

    Lokkars Daisy New Member

    Do you happen to visit to the seaside from time to time in your car Roukel ?
     
  9. mr sillys

    mr sillys New Member

    mr dongbot your description of ring final circuits is the one most fast track wanabies like to preach

    your "to ask any 2391 trainer" is a statement only made by tossers as most "trainers" lectures teachers are not up to the task in hand

    I am interested to know what you mean by:-
    Rings were introduced to solve a problem that didn't actually exist. And now that imaginary problem is 60 years old an our use of electricity has changed way beyond what was imagined back then

    if you could explain

    cheers
     
  10. Removed 4

    Removed 4 New Member

    Yipee! We're going to tha seaside at last......

    Just in time for the Labour Party Conference at Brighton.


    x
     
  11. Removed 4

    Removed 4 New Member

    mr silly, have you ever considered dropping dead? I'd consider it an enormous favour if you were to do so......


    Lucia
     
  12. JP.

    JP. Screwfix Select

    I think the Ring Final was introduced many years ago to use less metal..

    Nowadays it saves the use of a lot more MCB's.
     
  13. JP.

    JP. Screwfix Select

    However the use of Radial Finals only in say a small flat or bedsit is admirable.
     
  14. mr sillys

    mr sillys New Member

    mr silly, have you ever considered dropping dead? I'd consider it an enormous favour if you were to do so......


    Lucia


    as this is a public friendly informative help type forum I do not think wishing a fellow forum friend to die is in the spirt of the public friendly informative help type forum screwfix so kindly provide

    cheers
     
  15. Removed 4

    Removed 4 New Member

    Perhaps so, if you put it that way, sweetie.....


    But I'd still be very pleased for you to drop dead....


    cin-cin, cheers, cheerio!
     
  16. a life of forum loneliness has worn graham's moral fibre to a frayed strand
     
  17. Removed 4

    Removed 4 New Member

    a lack of imagination has caused the twit above to pinch another person's user name.......
     
  18. dingbat

    dingbat New Member

    "nothing wrong with a ring circuit if you're experienced and qualified in desiging and erecting such a circuit,"

    Well, there's problem number one.

    " if the only argument is that "Electricians" don't understand them and are unsure how to test them, then my opinion is this.. its time for these people to look at another career.

    So, the majority of electricians should re-train, then? Why don't they re-train as electricians? :)

    "Both radials and rings have their uses and adbantages/disadvantages and to simply say "ban Em ban Em" is nonscense"

    That's 'advantage' and 'nonsense'.

    Designed for the right reason and with correctly distributed loads, rings can be useful - floodlighting, for instance - but that's not why they get used. Most rings are thrown in by the ignorant, with the majority of high current draw sockets in the first ten percent of the ring.
     
  19. dingbat

    dingbat New Member

    "your "to ask any 2391 trainer" is a statement only made by tossers as most "trainers" lectures teachers are not up to the task in hand"

    Good point. Just as on here, it's often the blind leading the deaf and dumb.

    "Rings were introduced to solve a problem that didn't actually exist. And now that imaginary problem is 60 years old an our use of electricity has changed way beyond what was imagined back then"

    The change was from single, unfused sockets on individual 15A radials. Given that the 'problem' was supplying socket-outlets to plug in a single portable 3-bar fire, with a scarce copper supply, adopting multiple sockets on radial circuits would have used less cable than a ring.

    The only reason sparks install rings is because, "It's what we do, innit?". And that's no reason at all.
     
  20. supertech

    supertech New Member

    I personally like ring circuits , best thing since sliced bread. When designed and installed correctly they provide an enhanced safe distribution facility. (reference my fellow forum associate, with regard to earth continuity and the weak link in radial circuit distribution. Surely, the only problems arise and integrity compromised, when "cowboys" modify and fail to verify the installation by carrying out the prescribed tests.
     

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