Roof leak

[Tangoman]

My mum's house has developed a leak in the bathroom ceiling.

The plan of the bathroom is shown below - the window you see in the photo is marked. The bathroom is in two sections - one with the window shown, then a wall with a big arch in it and the main bathroom on the RHS.

The leak is in the ceiling above the area shown in pink on the plan.

Looking at the roof there, I notice there's a gully coming down from the roof on the RHS - I'm no roofer, but I'm suspecting the leak is there.

Anyone offer any thoughts on this?

 

[JOMEL]

Hi Tango.
Well in my younger days I used to do quite a lot of lead roof work
(ex plumber)
Like you say there will be a lead valley gutter at the junction of those two roofs.
I suppose It may of cracked over the years.
Or maybe just a dislodged slate. .
Are you able to get up there LOL it may not be to serious.
Try take some pics if the wife will allow you up there.
If I am up on a ladder now I take more time telling the wife I am fine
than looking after my safety.

Take care
Johnny M

 

[Abrickie]

The lead detail to the bottom of the valley on the main roof looks a little strange, I’d start there and work up the valley

 

[Tangoman]

Unfortunately I'm 200 miles away and she's in Tier3 area otherwise I'd have gone up to have a look.

Appreciate it's not really possible to advise much given a distant photo.

I'll try and ring around some roofers local to her and see if any are willing to go out and give a quote.

 

[Tangoman]

Finally managed to get someone out to quote - they only looked at the roof from the ground and quoted £680 to:

Reline valley to stop water coming in, repair slates and flashing to side.

I presume they're planning on doing this off a ladder as quote seems a bit low to involve scaffolding?

Seem reasonable?

 

[Jord86]

Missed this one first time around, there's a couple of broken slates that could be the offending cause, plus gutters may need a clean and as Abrickie mentioned the valley intersection is always a crucial area regarding waterproofing.

I personally would be wary of accepting their quote only because of the fact they quoted off the ground, I absolutely hate that because how can they accurately price something when you haven't seen the area where the issue lies or even if the valley itself requires remedial, it's just a blanket quote of where they assume the leak to be and away they go. Note I'm not casting aspersions that they are cowboys or anything like that, just that it could be £680 spent when it could just be a new lead flashing and couple of slates required.

It could be scaffold being as it's only a small area a few boards wide needed but it's possible they will put a tower scaffold up and a ridge ladder.

 

[Tangoman]

I managed to get a friend to take some photos of the roof.
I've put a red rectangle on the full roof view to show the area where water appears to be coming in.

I'm awaiting a loft inspection report as there are a number of cracked tiles directly above the window but that's to the left of where the water appears to be coming in, although it could be dripping in one place and running over of course.
To my untrained eye, apart from the tile in the gully, that area appears in reasonable shape?

 

[Abrickie]

Photo 4 top left, that slate is very likely letting water in. As you work down from there several look like they are on the way out. And I still don’t like the way the bottom of the valley looks

 

[Tangoman]

Well nothing has been done yet, and I'm finally got chance to examine the roof myself inside.
The leak appears to be in the newer roof on the RHS from the external pictures as that is felted and the felt extends slightly across the divide and is leaking right on the bit where the roofs meet.

Here's the photos I took from the inside.

Can anyone shed any more light on the extent of repairs required from these photos? Is £680 a reasonable quote?
Thanks

 

[ejenner]

Looks like there is a rain gutter made of wood? And it looks quite rotten.

 

[Tangoman]

Possibly - I''m wondering if the water is coming down onto that gutter and discharges into the lead valley where in heavy rain it it flows up slightly and gets under the top layer of lead -there appears to be a slight gap in the lead just above the end of the wooden gutter bit.

 

[ejenner]

They are good photos but nothing really substitutes for being able to see it in real life. The thing with the wooden gutter is that you probably wouldn't want it left there anyway. Maybe it was a popular thing to do at some point... but I can't recall ever having seen that before and there must be good reasons why it isn't done more often. If it has any holes in it... which let's face it, is pretty likely... the water could be going from the gutter into the house.

 

[Tangoman]

The gutter may not be a good thing, but it isn't responsible for the leak as the second set of photos show - the water isn't coming in where the gutter is.

 

[dray]

Looking at the second set, photo two, it looks at least 3 battens/slates up and is it me or has an old temp repair using a piece of polythene been attempted from inside?
Could the half tile in the valley have something to do with it, deflecting the water out of the valley and onto a loose slate perhaps?

 

[Abrickie]

Realistically the lead work to the valley wants ripping out and renewing, and if it was me I’d do the other side at the same time.The long run is too long and you can see where splits are forming, odds are the other side is just the same.
£680 frankly is too cheap for a proper job, “ line the valley “ sticking flashband over the lead falls within that. IMHO you need a detailed quote from someone who has at least put a ladder up

 

[Tangoman]

Looking at the second set, photo two, it looks at least 3 battens/slates up and is it me or has an old temp repair using a piece of polythene been attempted from inside?
Could the half tile in the valley have something to do with it, deflecting the water out of the valley and onto a loose slate perhaps?

Nobody would have attempted a repair - what I think you are referring to as polythene is I think lead - it's certainly metal - the small flap folded over the end of the thin wooden strip there.

Originally on the RHS of the house the front was single storey (a garage) and the back was two stories but with a flat roof on top. When a second storey was installed above the garage about 20 years ago, the roof was changed to what you see now - I suspect the lead and the felt you can see in the interior photos were installed then as it's where the two roofs connect.

 

[Jord86]

Until you get scaffolding up or wait inside the loft until it rains, it will only be guesswork.

 

[Tangoman]

Until you get scaffolding up or wait inside the loft until it rains, it will only be guesswork.

The path of the water inside is clear - you can see it best in photo #3 above - the white line on the underside of the roofing felt - where that meets the baton attached to the rafter against the wall, the felt is damaged and water is clearly coming through there as the timber below is wet.

What I don't know is what purpose that felt is supposed to be serving - perhaps not clear in the photos but it only covers the gap between about 2 batons - and clearly doesn't go all the way to the end of the roof - also the lead which appears to be underneath the felt at the near edge - is the idea that any water making its way onto the felt is supposed to end up on the lead, but a failure in the felt means this no longer happens? If so doesn't sound like a good way to construct a roof as I thought the felt was meant to be the second line of defense, not an essential component of the primary line of defense?

I can try and get hold of a ladder locally to go look at the outside if it will help, but not sure what I'll be looking for?

 

[Tangoman]

Also if anyone can recommend any reputable roofers in the Wigan area??

 

[Tangoman]

Sigh, what an absolute mess this project is turning out to be.

Had 4 lots of roofers out - first guy (above) just viewed it from the ground and said they'd redo the valley. Second guy's ladder wasn't long enough so they just looked at it from the ground, but they did have the photos as well - said the only way he'd do the job is to redo the entire rear of the roof. Third guy looked at it inside and out and said it was an easy fix, just needed the valley redoing at the bottom - quote the same as the first guy, Last crowd looked at it properly but then won't give me a quote - I keep leaving messages and no reply. So went with Guy #3 who did the job in about 3h yesterday.

Today my mum's electric went - she didn't tell me, couldn't get her on the phone all day (because the phone was out and her mobile was probably in a bag somewhere) - finally got through to her in the evening - she hadn't connected the electric to the roof job, but sure enough - it was - the repair has made the leak MUCH MUCH worse, so much so that it's drenched the shower isolation switch tripping the RCD and soaked the bathroom floor - it was just a stain on the wall, now it's bucket territory. I got my mum to turn off the shower circuit and at that's enough to get her power back. Roofer coming back tomorrow.

I'm going to have to go back up myself now though as my mum is not equipped to deal with this and I'm going to have to personally check if the roof is fixed (somehow) and then dry out the attic. Technically I'm allowed to visit as my mum lives alone so I can bubble with her, but the police seem to be making up the law as they please right now, so sod's law says I'll pick up a fine along the way