Rust !

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Pollowick, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. Pollowick

    Pollowick Well-Known Member

    Trying to get to the bottom of an issue with patio lights tripping both RCBO and and intermediate breaker. Something like 15 IP rated boxes to work through and I am finding the supplied and installed choc blocks have all rusted!

    Brass does not rust, it gets a little surface corrosion but never rusts. Further investigation shows that the screws and blocks themselves have been made from steel and flashed with brass, so one minor scratch and moisture penetrates starting off the rust. Causing the screws to rust in ...

    The boxes are dry inside, so this is just seepage and moisture in the air.

    So, somewhere there will be tracking across, but which one and where? A slow process and I will need to find some brass choc blocks as the enclosures are too small for Wago connectors and cable sizes too different for crimping.

    A penny or two saved in production results in a costly exercise to fault find!
     
  2. Gluggy

    Gluggy Member

    Always the way - sure the thought process is if it lasts the warranty period then it becomes someone else's problem, so why spend more / make less profit to make something "better" than it "needs" to be....
     
  3. Brightsparks

    Brightsparks Member

    Wages in jell blocks inside the ip rates enclosures.
    I know the word wago isn’t to everyone’s liking.
     
  4. Brightsparks

    Brightsparks Member

    Sorry rushing while working meant wagos in jel blocks
    Blinking predictive text.
     
  5. Pollowick

    Pollowick Well-Known Member


    I know what you meant! Unfortunately, the IP boxes are too small even for just Wago's. Looking at the Raychem Gel boxes in their entirety but need to find teh failure - it may actually be the light itself with water ingress (according to the manufacturer/importer) and they are rated IP68!
     
  6. Lectrician

    Lectrician Screwfix Select

    I have noticed some terminal blocks rusting as you describe. A shame, as the actual plastic on them is far better than others. I would not make the assumption that there is tracking due to this corrosion though. I have been in the same situation - The terminal blocks needed replacing as I could not undo the terminals to split the circuit to test. Cables cut, stripped, tested and reconnected. Fault narrowed down and pin pointed. Not caused by the rusting terminal blocks.
     
  7. Pollowick

    Pollowick Well-Known Member

    Have just found one problem ... a IP light had failed internally. No idea why!

    Not saying the corrosion has caused the tracking, but it makes them blocks impossible to undo resulting it cutting and reterminating!
     
  8. HappyHacker

    HappyHacker Member

    I had a similar problem but the choc connectors were not even in an enclosure so slugs, ants, soil etc had accumulated around the connections regularly tripping the RCD. I used Wagos with the Wago paste inserted to prevent oxidisation all covered in electrical paste to delay the inevitable. Wago make some very small connectors in their new range, have you looked at these? The lights were from one of the sheds and to be honest I would not have fitted them they were really poor but whoever fitted them had made a compete mess of it even where they had used IP rated boxes.
     
  9. Pollowick

    Pollowick Well-Known Member


    Do you have a part or range number?
     
  10. HappyHacker

    HappyHacker Member

  11. Pollowick

    Pollowick Well-Known Member

    Thought there was a new series - even the 221s would be an issue, might squeeze three 2 ways in, but not 3 way. Cannot use 2273s either as some cables are fine stranded (the rest stranded).

    Also though about some 224-112 lighting connectors, however they are designed for solid on one side and multi-strand on the other and all mine are multistrand
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  12. HappyHacker

    HappyHacker Member

    If you need to get them in an existing enclosure and you cannot find a proper brass choc connector then solder or a bodge with crimps may be the only way.

    I must admit i am completely fed up with the rubbish manufacturers/customers expect us to install/repair. I often recommend that customers throw stuff out rather than try to repair it.
     
    Pollowick likes this.
  13. Pollowick

    Pollowick Well-Known Member

    Solder maybe the only way, but some of the insulation these days just melts or runs back at the merest hint of heat! Did some recently, 2x1.5 SWA and 0.5 mm flex, solder and four layers of heat shrink!

    There is so much around where they scrimp and save .0001p and it costs the user way more to change it.
     

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