Seeping push-on end stop - inaccessible position. How to fix?

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by SteveMJ, Feb 4, 2011.

  1. SteveMJ

    SteveMJ Active Member

    Help please, save my weekend...

    I have a problem with a seeping push-on end stop.

    It is a plastic push-on over a copper pipe that is very difficult to access.  The end of the joint is against a wooden batten and the pipe it is on is behind a soil pipe.  I can just get my fingertips onto it, but little more than this.

    The ends stop was not leaking for years, so the joint was good once.
    I would appreciate some advice as to how to fix this with minimum effort of removing; tiles, soil pipe, woodwork etc.
    I?ve attached a couple of photos that explains what I see as my predicament.
    Helpful advice is much appreciated.

    Attached Files:

  2. palavaman

    palavaman Well-Known Member

    This is not a helpful advice, but it is advice all the same.
    Cut away a section of plasterboard, MDF or whatever.  Using wire wool or similar, clean around copper pipe fitting by stop end/cap to remove dirt.  Using pair of pliers or a wrench, push/force push end further into pipe.  If leak does not stop, drain down, and replace.

    If all else fails, get a plumber in.  WHO SAYS PLUMBING WAS AN EASY JOB???

    People install things and provide no allowance for maintenance???   pppffffttttt.  Good luck M8, you'll need it.

    NB:  There seems 2b a yorkshire fitting next to stop end.  If your luck is out, you may not even have any means of pushing the fitting further into the pipe!!!!!
  3. sinewave

    sinewave Screwfix Select

    Call that difficult access?

  4. hibeealex

    hibeealex Member

    Well cutting the plasterboard to increase access is the first step , see if you can get to it then!
    However its obviously redundant so can you access it somewhere else and cut & cap in a better position.
    is the 4" soil connected to the toilet at the right hand side? if so it will probably have a 90 bend, disconnect from the toilet & see if you can get enough movement on the 4" by sliding it out of the socket. unless of course it boxed in and tiled.
  5. SteveMJ

    SteveMJ Active Member

    Thanks for all the answers.  I will be trying to fix later - oh joy.

    Your advice may be helpful - I'll report back if and when all OK.  (Bye the way just spent a while reading about your Maidstone Court problem - Devil's Advocate seemed to give good advice - I digress!!)

    To access the area further means taking off tiles that cannot be re-purchased if broken, tryign to clean the area and push the end-stop on may work - I can jamb a screwdriver down to push it further on - MAYBE?

    There is a reducing T soldered onto the pipe.

    If I get a plumber in I would expect that 90% of the job is not the plumbing but the stuff around it.

    Thanks again for the help and advice.

  6. SteveMJ

    SteveMJ Active Member

    Thank you also.

    I'll try to hack aay at the palster board above the copper pipe - bit of a fiddle.

    The soil pipe goes the whole length of that wall along the next one to the loo.  It is all in the same tiled boxing in, so I can't see it let alone touch it to try to move it.

    Thanks, Steve
  7. Captain Leaky

    Captain Leaky New Member

    A Stop End should not have been used in that situation in the first place...but it has...just get a screwdriver in and lever it firmly onto the pipe, usually this sorts it.
  8. palavaman

    palavaman Well-Known Member

    Well Steve, thanks for sympathising with me Re: Maidstone county court.  That chap Devils Advocate does indeed provide good advice.  As for Touch Local and their solicitors, I am not in the least bothered.  4nnyly ennuf, their solicitors sent me another text today saying I must call them urgently.  JOKERS.

    As per your problem, I can confirm that there's a Tee (yorkshire) close to the Cap. In as much as hibeealex says cut and cap from another location, I hope you dont.  If you do, the feed from that tee will be redundant, so fink about it.

    Its a 5 mins job, but could easily take 2-3 hours.  Remove tiles etc, drain down use torch to remove tee or replace stop end with new one, refill system.  Then, guess what???   Ahhaaaa, air lock.  so try to resolve that.  Ehhhh, plumber asks for 2 hours pay and you say ''I could've replaced it myself in 5 mins.  Why did you have to do all that faffing about?''

    This plumbing, EASY INNIT????
  9. tightenit

    tightenit New Member

    Do it right. The installer should have done. Take out the tee and replace with an elbow. Push fit stopends don't last forever. Failing that just hack away and put a compression stop end on. Creat the space you need with anhammer. It's not on view anyway is it. Good luck and drain down first whatever you do otherwise you might have a problem.
  10. goldenboy

    goldenboy Super Member

    Just a chippies input. Get a multimaster and cut away as a much of the surrounding framework and plasterboard as you can. You should be able to get pretty good access without damaging any of the on show tiles. Cut away the front section of framework and you may be able to push the soil pipe a bit to improve access as well google "winbag" for a really handy bit of kit for that kind of thing. Then talk to those who know about water.
  11. Jeepers, Pala - you got X-ray vision?  Is it the length of the yorkie fitting that makes you think it's a tee?

    As well as dispensing sound legal advice, I also offer mickey-mouse solutions to tricky plumbing situations. Tho' the presence of a tee renders this somewhat redundant :(

    This is what I would do if it was in my house; cut away a strip of plasterboard above copper pipe. Shut off water to pipe (just in case...). Drop a set of adjustable, angle-headed grips down between soil and copper pipe - assuming there is an inch between them (hard to tell) for it to fit. Rotate head of grips so's the copper pipe is now in t'jaws. Crush the ****er as far as possible for an inch or so - a few inches from t'end. Bend the copper pipe up on this flattened bit until the end is now accessible. Carry out repair to end. Rebox and forget about it...

    Sound, huh?
  12. SteveMJ

    SteveMJ Active Member

    Well after a few hours fiddling (and having evening meal) I am not making any significant progress.

    I cut away the plaster board above the pipe (thanks hibeealex) and tried to clean around the seeping joint.  I had little success as I couldn?t get my fingers in there, so I tried acid cleaner to get rid of lime scale build-up and Cu oxide; again so so result.
    I pulled the push-on?s retentive collar back as far as I could and wedged a screwdriver between it and the battening and heaved/hammered to push it further on.  Thanks both Captain Leaky and palavaman.  It still seeps :-(

    What I am thinking of doing next, but am wary in case I introduce more problems:
    • Cut back the woodwork ? easy. 
    • Cut the end of the soil pipe (will be stinky)
    • Pull the soil pipe out of the way or cut a slice out of it.
    • Replace the reducing Tee with a proper elbow (either soldered or compression, maybe push fit ? but now am wary of them), thanks tightenit.  Compression is favourite.
    • Join the soil pipe with coupler (Screwfix part 14551)
    I am concerned that the soil pipe?s outer surface is too scratched that a good seal will be impossible or it may be a non-standard size (Is that likely?).  So, maybe I could use solvent cement to seal it as well (Screwfix 14295)?  This soil pipe is the biggest unknown so some advice would be appreciated.

    Of course something else may go wrong :-(  After all I spent the afternoon taking a kitchen cupboard down to locate where water was dripping from it! To end up in the bathroom.

    Thanks again everyone for your help and advice, it is much appreciated.
  13. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    Not being funny, but are you sure it's the stop-end that's leaking ? Or could it be the tee joint(if indeed it is one)?

    As for cutting the soil pipe, you might have trouble getting it back in with a joint on it !!!!!

    Mr. HandyAndy - Really
  14. Steve, you reckon if you cut the soil pipe you'll be able to slide it towards the right and make a gap to work through? Isn't there already a connection at the very left hand end you can disconnect?

    Your general plan sounds fine. The coupler you linked to is also ok - the soil pipes should all be the same diameter, and a bit of 'rough' on the outside surface - whilst not ideal - should also be ok provide there aren't any deep scratches. Perhaps peeps on here can recommend what to do about this - either fine abrasive paper or else use a sealing compound? I guess a solvent slip-coupling would also do, and might be better if the surface is really bad. Make sure it's clean, tho'.(If you remove the 'pips' in the middle of a coupler, you can slide them  on to a pushed-sideways pipe end, slipped right up on to the pipe, the two pipe ends matched up, and the coupler then slide until it's half-way over both. Some already have the 'pips' missing for this purpose.)

    It does look as though you just have to go for it. Start first thing in the morning, and allow for water having to be turned off an' shi' (literally and met...) - ie: store some in pans, etc.

    As for repair fitting, a soldered fitting would be best, and probably the easiest too since you'd be replacing an existing soldered tee with an elbow fitting - the pipe ends will be perfectly tinned already! If you don't fancy removing the tee and replacing it with an elbow (and the pipe ends would have to have the same lengths to suit each fitting), then remove the push-on end cap instead, clean up the end and use a solder end cap or compression fitting with paste.
  15. no comment

    no comment New Member

    **** this is gettin painfull.. cut the 2  -  1 timber at top of cap out with a sharp wood chisel far as needed to ease the cap off, turn water of either ease cap of or cut it off clean pipe and slide a new cap on looks tight but **** me call yoursel plumbers.. 
  16. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    What he's gotta watch out for, is that it's a wood-based frame with tiles. Too much banging about and there'll be some cracked tiles.

    If  the tee is now exposed(after you said you removed that plasterboard), I'd cut it straight off above the tee, that should allow the pipe a little movement and maybe enough to work on it better. Then cut the pipe off before the tee and fit compression joints/elbow/pipe etc to repair.

    Mr. HandyAndy - Really
  17. palavaman

    palavaman Well-Known Member

    Well DA, I do not have xray vision, just a knack for fings    There has to be one or possibly two tees off that piece of pipe?  Picture shows a yorkshire fitting close to stop end, why the need for yorkshire at that location? except presence of a tee.  This, as far as I am concerned explains why end cap is leaking.  In as much as OP says it was ok all these years, that may well not be the case (which is why I dont buy Captain Leaky's idea of levelling with screw driver and presto, leak stops).  Excess solder from that tee has dribled towards end cap from time of initial fitting, ensuring that it is not possible to get a complete seal.  The fitting has been 'weeping' for a while, and has only now showed as all surrounding areas are saturated and cant hold back any more water so it becomes noticable.  Just past white blob (adhessive me finks) on soil pipe is what looks like another yorkshire fitting?  I could go on all nite but the missus is screaming that I come to bed, NOW???

    You must drain down, use chissel to take off some of that wood by end cap, remove some plasterboard, then use piece of wood to lever pipe away from Soil pipe, then withdraw end cap and replace with compression one or if you're brave, soldered endfeed cap.  Job done, 2 hrs.  That will be only £85 please

    BTW, that price does not involve 'making good' any woodwork etc repairs to the surrounding areas.  Except you want me to charge you for 3 hrs (instead of 2) plus materials:'(
  18. Captain Leaky

    Captain Leaky New Member

    Experience Pallyman ;) Most push fit dribbles will stop if you give the fitting a little help. Done it lots of times....although one should never have been used there.
  19. palavaman

    palavaman Well-Known Member

    Experience is the best teacher 'Cptain', I don't disagree. Trouble is it won't hold true all the time? I'm a 100% convinced that that pipe is either not long ennuf to create a proper seal or excess solder from Yorkshire fitting is preventing it from makingva good seal. The fitting has always leaked, but only minutely. Has now become apparent. Little drops of water make a great ocean.  I can just immagine myself as your apprentice (you won't allow that in a zillion yrs, agreed?), customer sent you this pics & you say, 'palman go sort it out. This is what you do. Should take you 5 mins, charge£100'. Two hrs later, you're screaming down the phone asking what i'm still doing there?  Ehhh, boss, I did what you said but it's leaking now more than when I touched it. Stupid apprentice 2 week course idiots! Why can't they follow simple instructions? I need the idiot to go sort Mrs Smith's tap washer ***? Bet he gets that wrong & all. Bunch of idiots!  Keep your hat on Cptn, it's only a job innit?
  20. Dale Honeybucket

    Dale Honeybucket New Member

    You bunch of fools, Steve is the SF MD!! He's on here trying to boost the forum membership numbers.

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