Shamima Begum

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dinkydo said:
Unfortunately we are at war and these things happen
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There are unavoidable casualties of this.

Then there are avoidable casualties of this.

This infant died as a direct result of his mothers action combined with Sajid Javid's political ambitions.

Hunt is just trying to spin this.

Anyone falling for the "it was too difficult" line is a fool. Javid's career was foremost in this case.

At the end of the day once Javid took the view that it was beneficial for him to give it the biggun on being strong on IS brides that infants fate was sealed.
 
RolandK said:
I'm no fan of Sajid Javid but it's hardly his fault that tragically the little one has died.
In practical and logistical terms how was he supposed to get a pregnant (full term) woman out of the camp and back to safety for the baby's sake? Similarly how was the baby alone going to be 'evacuated' from the camp during his too short 3 week life? He must have contracted the pneumonia soon after birth and no intervention could realistically have changed the sad sad outcome for the child.
I am very sad that an innocent child has died but these tragedies happen but we can't always justifiably apportion blame to a single individual or organisation. It might make us feel we are doing the right thing or make us feel better that we have vented our anger in a chosen direction even if it's not justified. It won't change anything sadly.
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Eh? Her citizenship was revoked after the baby was born. Hence why he was a British citizen.
 
RolandK said:
I'm no fan of Sajid Javid but it's hardly his fault that tragically the little one has died.
In practical and logistical terms how was he supposed to get a pregnant (full term) woman out of the camp and back to safety for the baby's sake? Similarly how was the baby alone going to be 'evacuated' from the camp during his too short 3 week life? He must have contracted the pneumonia soon after birth and no intervention could realistically have changed the sad sad outcome for the child.
I am very sad that an innocent child has died but these tragedies happen but we can't always justifiably apportion blame to a single individual or organisation. It might make us feel we are doing the right thing or make us feel better that we have vented our anger in a chosen direction even if it's not justified. It won't change anything sadly.
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No intervention would have saved the child?

I didnt realise pneumonia was always terminal.

As for the handwringing over how tough it would be. Thats pathetic spin. Hunt is talking like him and Javid had to set off on their bikes to get him back.

The Syrians want everyone out of those camps asap.

Had Javid given the nod that baby would have been out of there and into relative safety in Damascus in hours without any need for UK boots on the ground in the camp.

At the end of the day, Javid set his stall out to sell his hardman credentials. He was and is happy for that baby to die to give him a boost.
 
goldenboy said:
I don't think it is an IS controlled camp at all. I think its the opposite in fact.

My understanding is that many other countries have repatriated people from there and are still doing it. Indeed the UK has and still is.

Javid absolutely is grandstanding on this issue. He is preaching to the converted, people like those contributing to this thread who for example are denying the existence of or parenthood of the baby to suit their narrative.

He has misjudged it completely.

Regardless of what Shamima Begum has said or done, the baby was entirely innocent. The UK government had a responsibility to do whatever it could to try to protect that baby. Instead to boost his PR Sajid Javid did the exact opposite. I hope that haunts him forever.

The death of this child is a recruiting sergeant for IS 2.0. Had the UK government done the right thing it would have been the exact opposite.

Protect the baby and deal with Shamima Begum later. Instead Javid dealt with her (almost certainly illegally) and discarded the baby as collaterall damage.
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I disagree with the idea that IS do not control internal goings on in the camp. Yesterday it was reported that a couple of thousand women and children from the besieged IS stronghold were being taken to the camp. Most of the adults will have been IS sympathisers, that is why they did not leave earlier. Northern Ireland is under British control, but in the 1970's the IRA controlled large areas. It is not unreasonable to assume that the same is true in this camp.
 
Bob Rathbone said:
I disagree with the idea that IS do not control internal goings on in the camp. Yesterday it was reported that a couple of thousand women and children from the besieged IS stronghold were being taken to the camp. Most of the adults will have been IS sympathisers, that is why they did not leave earlier. Northern Ireland is under British control, but in the 1970's the IRA controlled large areas. It is not unreasonable to assume that the same is true in this camp.
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All that is based on what?

Your guesswork.

You have stated as fact that it is an IS controlled camp.

Thats utter nonsense.

I really do suggest you look into it further.
 
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Bob Rathbone said:
I disagree with the idea that IS do not control internal goings on in the camp. Yesterday it was reported that a couple of thousand women and children from the besieged IS stronghold were being taken to the camp. Most of the adults will have been IS sympathisers, that is why they did not leave earlier. Northern Ireland is under British control, but in the 1970's the IRA controlled large areas. It is not unreasonable to assume that the same is true in this camp.
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Do you know who the SDF are?

Do you understand what a refugee camp is.

Do you understand the broad spectrum of people in there?

The idea that IS are running that camp and waging a reign of terror in there is ridiculous.

Its full of people displaced from their homes from all or indeed no side.
 
If it was a war there would be prisoner of war camps not refugee camps and the women would be classed as non combatants.
 
goldenboy said:
There are unavoidable casualties of this.

Then there are avoidable casualties of this.

This infant died as a direct result of his mothers action combined with Sajid Javid's political ambitions.

Hunt is just trying to spin this.

Anyone falling for the "it was too difficult" line is a fool. Javid's career was foremost in this case.

At the end of the day once Javid took the view that it was beneficial for him to give it the biggun on being strong on IS brides that infants fate was sealed.
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There are plenty of British citizens including children around the world and even in the uk who are in need government intervention unfortunately this child was born to the wrong people at the wrong time, as were the other 2 of her previous children. its only this child your upset about? How about the children of the soldiers that would risk to the lives To extract the said child, it’s not that people are heartless about the death of a baby it’s just they are pragmatic about it, thousands of children die every day and a lot due to poverty so we can have cheap S*** so don’t start virtue signaling about a child that died due to a woman’s poor choices
 
Jimmycloutnail said:
There are plenty of British citizens including children around the world and even in the uk who are in need government intervention unfortunately this child was born to the wrong people at the wrong time, as were the other 2 of her previous children. its only this child your upset about? How about the children of the soldiers that would risk to the lives To extract the said child, it’s not that people are heartless about the death of a baby it’s just they are pragmatic about it, thousands of children die every day and a lot due to poverty so we can have cheap S*** so don’t start virtue signaling about a child that died due to a woman’s poor choices
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This child was the poster child for the far left, as anyone with a bit of sense knows, it’s going nowhere,
 
goldenboy said:
But he was happy to abandon him to die.
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How did he or anyone else know the baby was going to die? The first we heard of it was was after the death. Allegedly her third child to die. She seemed to know it was going to die before it was born. I smell a large rat!
 
RolandK said:
How did he or anyone else know the baby was going to die? The first we heard of it was was after the death. Allegedly her third child to die. She seemed to know it was going to die before it was born. I smell a large rat!
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Presumably the three week old was in on it too.

Maybe they got him from the same stage school as the 4 and 5 yr old actors who pretended to be killed at Sandy Hook?
 
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