Should the UK remain as a member of the EU?

  • Thread starter Thread starter nffc
  • Start date Start date

Should the UK remain as a member of the EU?

  • Yes

    Votes: 34 28.1%

  • No

    Votes: 83 68.6%

  • I don't know

    Votes: 2 1.7%

  • I don't vote

    Votes: 2 1.7%
  • Total voters
    121
Ryluer said:
Utter nonsense. Because we buy more from them. They need us. In or out.
Politicians might want to take revenge. But traders will want to operate as normal. Revenge works both ways.
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No it isn't.

The governments made the trading rules - traders have to abide by them. Govs can easily make it more difficult for the EU to trade with the ex-UK (either directly or by pulling strings).

Some twits even cite Norway as a great example of how it can be done outside the EU. But for Norway to have similar trading rights with the EU as we do, they have to actual abide by EXACTLY the same rules as the rest of the EU; contribute the same amount (oops - actually I think it's more per head of population to the EU than us?), and also have to abide by the EU's immigration policies.

Tell me now, Wry - you being the most cynical person on here (against some stiff competition); do you think the rest of the EU will say "Och, it's business as usual with the Brits..." if the UK leaves?

And when the UK splits up soon after - will they still treat us with reverence? Or more like carriers of the plague?

The potential damage to be caused by the UK leaving will not be easily forgotten or forgiven. And I honestly wouldn't blame them.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
No it isn't.

The governments made the trading rules - traders have to abide by them. Govs can easily make it more difficult for the EU to trade with the ex-UK (either directly or by pulling strings).

Some twits even cite Norway as a great example of how it can be done outside the EU. But for Norway to have similar trading rights with the EU as we do, they have to actual abide by EXACTLY the same rules as the rest of the EU; contribute the same amount (oops - actually I think it's more per head of population to the EU than us?), and also have to abide by the EU's immigration policies.

Tell me now, Wry - you being the most cynical person on here (against some stiff competition); do you think the rest of the EU will say "Och, it's business as usual with the Brits..." if the UK leaves?

And when the UK splits up soon after - will they still treat us with reverence? Or more like carriers of the plague?

The potential damage to be caused by the UK leaving will not be easily forgotten or forgiven. And I honestly wouldn't blame them.
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Scaremongering nonsense.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
The potential damage to be caused by the UK leaving will not be easily forgotten or forgiven
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The damage has already been done. Now we have the chance to leave. Just hope its for good as there have been rumblings about the government not accepting a "leave" result in the referendum and holding a second one.
 
parahandy said:
That's not what you said though.

"the USA owns most of their own debt $9.8 trillion of it."

Not quite the same thing.
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Actually, I quoted that line from the website I gave the link to.

Of course it's the same thing. The US creditors live and operate in the USA don't they? So that can be regarded as the USA (including citizens,corporations etc) owning the debt. If a debt is owned within a country (regardless of who owes who) it is owned by that country.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
But to try and imply that these new rules are going to be particularly undesirable to the UK - which is what you clearly are - is, again, complete, self-serving conjecture on your part.

Rules are rules are rules. Some of them we and other EU countries may be happy with, some less so for all sorts of reasons. But they are generally all for the ultimate good.

The EU is an example (like Britain itself is) to the rest of the world of decency, democracy, morality, security and human rights
.
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I never implied that these new directives would be detrimental/ undesirable to the UK, but the Polish MEP, clearly states the new directives are being kept from public view. What's this "Pandora's box" he's on about then??

As for the EU being an example to the rest of the world of decency, democracy, morality, security and human rights,,, What's democratic in the way votes are hurried through on directives put up for the vote by the European Commission? Often these debates last a few hours at most, some not even that long. These directives aren't even suggested by member states. Security??? Your clearly having a bloody laugh DA. The Schengen Agreement is in tatters at the moment, with many EU countries putting up the barriers.. Human Rights? Wasn't it a few years ago, France decided to send the Roma's back to their own country? (even though they had the right to live and work in France? Seems member states ignore EU laws whenever it suits them.. Can you give me an example of the UK ignoring EU laws when it suits the UK??
 
Brian_L said:
Actually, I quoted that line from the website I gave the link to.

Of course it's the same thing. The US creditors live and operate in the USA don't they? So that can be regarded as the USA (including citizens,corporations etc) owning the debt. If a debt is owned within a country (regardless of who owes who) it is owned by that country.
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It's owned by the creditor(s).
 
Devil's Advocate said:
And when the UK splits up soon after - will they still treat us with reverence? Or more like carriers of the plague?

The potential damage to be caused by the UK leaving will not be easily forgotten or forgiven. And I honestly wouldn't blame them.
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So, your almost admitting there that the EU would be "awkward" with the UK should we vote to leave,,, and you wouldn't blame them. Well, if we do leave and the UK suffers, you'll be suffering too. Never mind, you can sit in your comfortable armchair of an evening, with the smug satisfaction of knowing "I told you so." ;);)
 
joinerjohn1 said:
I never implied that these new directives would be detrimental/ undesirable to the UK, but the Polish MEP, clearly states the new directives are being kept from public view. What's this "Pandora's box" he's on about then??

As for the EU being an example to the rest of the world of decency, democracy, morality, security and human rights,,, What's democratic in the way votes are hurried through on directives put up for the vote by the European Commission? Often these debates last a few hours at most, some not even that long. These directives aren't even suggested by member states. Security??? Your clearly having a bloody laugh DA. The Schengen Agreement is in tatters at the moment, with many EU countries putting up the barriers.. Human Rights? Wasn't it a few years ago, France decided to send the Roma's back to their own country? (even though they had the right to live and work in France? Seems member states ignore EU laws whenever it suits them.. Can you give me an example of the UK ignoring EU laws when it suits the UK??
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OoooooOOOoooohhh - Pandora's box, eh?

Yes, what could that be? Got to be well bad, innit? 'Cos that's the interpretation you want it to have - even tho' you haven't a bludy clue wot this polish cove is on about.

But don't let that get in the way of a good argument, eh?

Just throw it in there and - when challenged - simply claim "I wasn't trying to imply that'.

"Tatters..." blah blah blah.

Ad nauseam

Shakes head sadly...
 
parahandy said:
It's owned by the creditor(s).
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And in a geographic location, where are those creditors who are owed the $9.8 trillion ?

If you wish to be pedantic like this, you might as well say, the USA don't owe money to China. because they probably owe most of it to creditors who are corporations in China.
 
joinerjohn1 said:
So, your almost admitting there that the EU would be "awkward" with the UK should we vote to leave,,, and you wouldn't blame them. Well, if we do leave and the UK suffers, you'll be suffering too. Never mind, you can sit in your comfortable armchair of an evening, with the smug satisfaction of knowing "I told you so." ;);)
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I was countering the point you made, JJ. As well you know.

Except I justified mine.

You chust hurl from the side and hopes some of it sticks and makes an impression.

Well, yes, it does - but not a good one for you.


I really do not look forward to 'smug satisfaction', JJ.

It makes me cringe to see such disillusionment. Such cynicism - when we are soooo fortunate. The mindless belief that a 'change' will somehow sort things out.

It's all part of the same simplistic Trumping mindset; It's gonna be soooo great. We are goin' to do sooooo much. It'll happen sooooo fast you won't believe. We'll make Britain greeeaaattt again..."

Hellish, slack-jawed ignorance.
 
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DA, I don't have a clue what the Polish MEP is on about,, but neither do you.. Why should he call it Pandora's box though?? Is Pandora's box a good thing?
 
Brian_L said:
And in a geographic location, where are those creditors who are owed the $9.8 trillion ?

If you wish to be pedantic like this, you might as well say, the USA don't owe money to China. because they probably owe most of it to creditors who are corporations in China.
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Now you're just being a silly billy.
 
Anyhoo, Baron Howard has chucked his weight behind the exit campaign now.

Looks like the PM is in the midst of a coup.
 
joinerjohn1 said:
DA, I don't have a clue what the Polish MEP is on about,, but neither do you.. Why should he call it Pandora's box though?? Is Pandora's box a good thing?
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I think you've just admitted the strength of your 'argument'.

I'd let that one lie now, JJ, and hope no-one else notices...
 
parahandy said:
Anyhoo, Baron Howard has chucked his weight behind the exit campaign now.

Looks like the PM is in the midst of a coup.
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Yep.

Poor guy.

And the irony is, most don't want a Brexit - they just want a more right-wing Tory party.

Skin-crawling hypocritical slimeballs.

...shudder...

Dear lord - Boris is going to be PM.

This is what happens following a recession - people become bludy bonkers.
 
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