Shower Power

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by theplumbingvillan, Aug 1, 2004.

  1. theplumbingvillan

    theplumbingvillan New Member

    I have four typical teenagers whose redeeming feature is that they are clean! However with one bathroom between them this causes morning problems. I have put a shower and wash basin(main cold feed to basins) in each of two of their bedrooms.
    I have run via the loft two independently supplied 22m pipes from the respective hot & cold tanks to two 22m elbows then from these 22m pipes to back of showers' 15m inlets. When I turn shower on it runs OK for 20/30 seconds then stops, drop the shower head 20 inches it starts running normally, the basin hot water tap runs OK with good pressure.
    Both my existing showers in main and ensuite work well with approx 32 inches between shower head and bottom of cold tank. These however are 6 & 9 feet from the tanks whereas the new cubicles are 40 feet away. I have read on this forum that distance can affect pressure, is this the reason that whilst the pipes have filled up to provide initial shower once this water is used up they do not fill up qick enough to continue.
    I have no more headroom in the loft to raise cold water tank. I am therefore being drawn to a pumped system for just these two new cubicles and the following questions:-
    1. As the shower at present does not work continually at head height will a shower pump start? If not would dropping the shower head down to waist level (more than 20 inches) start the pump and once started would it keep going with the shower head being placed back at head height?
    2. I do not particularly want the benefit of 2/3 Bar power showers, for water conservation reasons, so would the 1.5 Bar Heavy Duty Shower Pump supplied by Screwfix 11069 be sufficient to run both showers at the same time? I have measure in the past that 5 normal(!)continual showers can be accomodated by the hot water tank
    3. Can any of these pump shower systems be adjusted to the output they give out? I only want 32 inch pressure really as it already works on my existing showers and the kids accept it!
    I have already purchased the bar thermostatic mixer valves and fitted them.
    Any other suggestion to overcome my problems would be much appreciated, sorry about the length of this submission but hopefully this help me get the information I need in one hit! Thanks in anticipation.
     
  2. bilco

    bilco New Member

    The 1.5 bar pump will overcome the pipe resistance and if it is fitted say on the floor in the airing cupboard it will work regardless of the position of the shower heads. To regulate flow you could fit a bypass with a valve so some of the pumped water flows back to the other side of the pump.

    Increasing the diameter of the pipes would also ease the resistance, so had the 22mm supplies been 28mm, for instance, that may have worked.
     
  3. Stoday

    Stoday New Member

    40 ft is a bit too long for 28mm pipe, bilco. Table G18.7 of the regs says 8 metres max.
     
  4. Easy Life

    Easy Life Member

    i myself would fit one of these Pumps
    http://www.bathquest.co.uk/en-gb/dept6.html
    Salamander Esp Cpv (Negative-head and Positive- Head pump at the flick of a switch)where you said that you dont wish to use much water, (No Probs) if you were to use say a higher Bar than you stated you can always (as recomended by Salamander) add gate valves to each outlet to restrict the amount of water used.

    i.e no point restricting the bath (unless u want to use the bath n showers at the same time), restrict the showers would allow more than one shower to be used at a time, if you were to pump all you hot water then you may need to restrict the flow to basins / sinks etc. other wise you will prob get wet.

    Jacen
     
  5. ezecool

    ezecool New Member

    Another solution that you may want to consider is an unvented cylinder. eg. megaflow. Installation may cost a little extra than going with a shower pump, but is arguably better in many ways.

    You just have to read messages on this forum to see the issues people are having with pumps.

    Martyn
     
  6. theplumbingvillan

    theplumbingvillan New Member

    Many thanks to you all I am very grateful for your inputs, why didn't I think of gate valves to reduce pressure!
    I have decided to go with Bilco's suggestion, as it seems the cheapest option and have placed order for 1.5 Bar. The pressurised system was considered but the cost of new cylinder et al and my own competence precludes this.
    Bilco could you just clear my thought please, when you say by-pass and valve do you mean:-
    from hot outlet pipe from pump say 12 inches up fit elbow, take pipe from this through a gate valve and into an elbow connected to pump inlet pipe from hot water tank. Repeat the above for the cold side as well.
    I take it from this that opening up the gate valve will enable me to regulate the pressure at the showers and the basin taps.

    Again many thanks for your help
     
  7. Easy Life

    Easy Life Member

    you should only in my opinion use gate valves after the pump and not before

    Jacen
     
  8. bilco

    bilco New Member

    Yep...that is, TEEs where you state elbows...If you chose instead to throttle the flow with valves, you will likely need to do this for each swower, otherwise you could get very different flow rates when one or both showers are used.
     
  9. theplumbingvillan

    theplumbingvillan New Member

    Finally received the pump from Screwfix, there was no need for a by-pass as the pump has a variable flow control switch. Easily fitted and works a treat although initially there was a problem with no flow from cold pipe. Took off mixer tap still no flow, traced back to water tank connection where I discovered an airlock. Once sorted no problem.

    Many thanks to all who replied especially Bilco, he gave me the confidence to have a go!
     

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