Solid oak flooring - do I need underlay

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by JonnyNitro, Oct 22, 2009.

  1. JonnyNitro

    JonnyNitro New Member

    About to lay some 22mm solid oak in lounge and hallway.
    Existing floor is floorboards, so going to secret nail the new floor.

    I want to lay the new boards in the same direction as the existing, so I believe I need to lay 6mm ply first.

    As I'm laying the 6mm ply, do I need to bother with an underlay. Such as this http://www.wickes.co.uk/Flooring-Underlay-Roll/invt/620801

    Many thanks.
     
  2. JonnyNitro

    JonnyNitro New Member

    One other thing, there are 2 small areas in the lounge that aren't floorboards.

    One area is where an old hearth was (approx 85cm by 30 cm), this was a floor screed that has subsequently had a latex leveller applied to it to get it levelled with the surrounding boards.

    The other is in front of some patio doors (approx 180cm by 20cm). Also screed, levelled with latex.

    Would you suggest just screwing and plugging the ply into those areas, and then sticking the oak to the ply in those areas, or what other method ?

    Ta.
     
  3. JonnyNitro

    JonnyNitro New Member

    And one more thing, the flooring I'm looking at is from Cambridge Timbertec Ltd - 140mm width by 22mm.

    www.cambridgetimbertec.co.uk

    Anyone used their product before, good, bad or indifferent ?
     
  4. lamps

    lamps New Member

    underlay is more for laminate or engineered
    your using solid on wood so as you said just nail it
    but be carefull of the hearth as its concrete, pva it lay a damp proof membrane (plastic sheet) and on this occassion just direct fix ply to floor
     
  5. mack4

    mack4 New Member

    Probably no need for a barrier underneath the hearth but better to be safe.Use Gripfill/No more nails/etc on the concrete.
    mack
     
  6. lamps

    lamps New Member

    what is hearth made from=concrete what does concrete do to wood or what does the wood do on concrete absorb the moisture =cupping
    i would always direct fix, peace of mind and all that
     
  7. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    you def need underlay
    ;)
     
  8. lamps

    lamps New Member

  9. JonnyNitro

    JonnyNitro New Member

    Thanks for the response Audi, I was hoping you'd be around to give me your input !

    Assuming I ply the floor first (is this a definite MUST do?), would I then lay the underlay before nailing the oak ?

    Also, what do you propose as to the hearth area?

    Many thanks for your help.
     
  10. JonnyNitro

    JonnyNitro New Member

  11. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    Yeah most manufacturers now say dpm combi underlay on all groundfloor installations.
    On concrete floors was always the norm but the train of thought these days on suspended timber floors is that the air circulating in the space below the floor is cold and damp so dpm is used.
    Also the underlay will reduce squeaking and creaking between the new floor and the subfloor when it expands and contracts.
    I would nail directly to floorboards but only if running at 90 deg, not if you want run in the same direction.
    As for the hearth, it is just a small area and rarely if ever a traffic area so i just glue t+g as if floating.
     
  12. lamps

    lamps New Member

    underlay stop squeaking lol i cant see the correlation between the two sorry evo stik
    as i said underlay is for engineered or laminate
    what manufacturer says that evo
     
  13. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    you cant see that two pieces of wood nailed together could make a noise when one of them moves?????

    What manufacturer recomends dpm on all groundfloor installations............ all of them!!!!!!!!!
    The first company to recomend this to me was grundorf at the flooring show in harrogate a good few years ago, then again when i went on their fitting course.
    Also may articles in the flooring journal and in contract flooring mags the same.

    You nail straight to floorboards on a ground floor????
    sorry limps..........your wrong!!!!!!!!!
     
  14. lamps

    lamps New Member

    how can ply move when screwed directly to joists and flooring
    how can the oak move when it has been nailed to the ply which has been fixed to sub floor
     
  15. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    here you go kidda
    number 2

    "Timbermate excel is recommended as a vapour and acoustic barrier between the subfloor and the finish floor . This helps to control dust and moisture from below as well as dampen squeaks and reduce noise transference. . Alternatively builders paper or roofing felt works reasonably well. This can be stapled to the floor. Polythene sheeting should also be laid over soil areas underneath the subfloor to lessen vapour transmission."

    http://www.wood4floors.co.uk/wb/pages/guides-info/fitting-instructions.php
     
  16. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    I thank you
    :)
     
  17. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    oh btw
    "how can the oak move when it has been nailed to the ply"
    so what you saying? we don't need expansion gaps then?
    ..............oh dear!!!!!!!!!
     
  18. chip off the block

    chip off the block New Member

    not that i am arguing with you audi, i actualy agee but why is it that old oak floors are laid directly to the joists with no problems with squeaks etc?
     
  19. chip off the block

    chip off the block New Member

    even mamade boards like chipboard need expansion.

    what are your thoughts on gluing directly to the floorboards audi? thats what i did in my hall with no problems
     
  20. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    yeah they are and prob spent the last 100 years moaning and groaning and creaking, you know the old saying, the house is settling down for the night.
    Try doing that in a customers house today, tell them their floor is supposed to creak and groan........ they'll have you in small claims before you can say hows your wotsit!
     

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