Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by Deleted member 33931, Apr 23, 2017.

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  1. fillyboy

    fillyboy Screwfix Select

    Jesus PJ you must be in St Ives with a sea view. In St Austell a 3 bed family home can be rented for £600
    I do agree there is a problem, I do some work for a private landlord who has 5 houses, he tried to get away from 'housing benefit' type tenants after a couple of problems (severe problems),
    the fact is, in our part of the country (and I suspect most parts), the majority of private tenants are on housing benefits so they're not paying anywhere near the full rent (if any ), he had to accept that most tenants would be on housing benefits.

    Now, raving capitalist right wing brexit voting Le Pen supporting Trump loving anti immigration and despiser of all things socialist monster that I am, I do believe that one of the best things we could do as a country would be to embark on a massive scale of building social housing, exactly as we did in the fifties, it worked well and rebuilt the economy after the war, like America in the thirties.

    I was born in Battersea and my family moved out to a new council estate near slough when I was a year old (1957), a remarkable place and a privileged upbringing courtesy of the GLC, we even had a Grammar School (oh how DA would hate that).

    When I lived on that council estate of several thousand houses the number of tenants having their rent paid for them (and people knew) could be counted on one hand. Today, the number of tenants actually paying rent on an estate like that would be negligible.

    These days it simply couldn't be done, in the fifties and sixties the govt actually got a long term return on their investment, today they would be faced with the cost of building the houses AND paying the rent, and that's without even beginning to consider providing housing for most of Eastern Europe, along with free health care.
  2. fillyboy

    fillyboy Screwfix Select

    OK, lets look at it from the other side of the coin. Young Cornish lad inherits his parents house, sells it to someone 'up country', moves into a council house and spends the rest of his life whingeing about 'up country' folk buying up the property and shutting locals out.
    And don't even get me started on the flack I get from a few locals about me (an old guy with white hair and arthritis) who's moved into the area 10 years ago and 'stolen' all their work.
  3. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    Clay country is a cheap area, filly. If you live here you know that. Imerys is still going but on nowhere near the scale of yesteryear, hence depressed wages, high unemployment and lower housing costs.

    I think £600pm to live in snozzle is too much meself :p

    In all my years here I've not had a single instance of Cornish folk going on about me stealing work from them. Not once. Not even in the home of Mabyon Kernow....

    I know of no-one who has inherited a house, sold it to someone from the wrong side of the Tamar, moved into a council house and started complaining about up country folk.
    I'd suggest the council may even say you were intentionally homeless if you tried to do that and refuse to house you... ;)

    Seems to me that you don't think much of Cornish folk, maybe they're just mirroring it back at you :p

    I agree that a social housing spree would be both wise and necessary.
    Deleted member 33931 likes this.

  4. So you have just made a case against the unfettered globalisation that you dont want.

    So how is supporting right wing tories exreme right wing unfettered capitalism going to change any of that?

    Wages high enough to live on without any benefits (people needing benefits to live is just subsidising big business isn't it ), affordable housing, which they supply on a supply and demand basis to keep prices high (to stop the economy collapsing), education system that supports those with an unprivilged start etc, etc.

    Seems like you know where the problem is, but support it anyway.

    It is the unfettered part of capitalism, lack of social respobsibility that has escalated the issue.

    And then impose austerity, like fixing public servants wages, to subsidise big business again.

    Say 1 thing, but mean another, but not the only 1 here to do that
  5. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    I sort of agree.
    But :D
    I'd add in the word 'croney' before capitalism. I'm not going to hold up capitalism as some great model but in a truly capitalist economy the market would indeed rule, and that would lead to consequences for a business that acted irresponsibly. It would be in business interests to 'keep people sweet'. Similar to socialism and communism, the world has never seen a truly capitalist system beyond the pages of a book.
    The system we have evolved from days of yore. Ie the game was stacked at the off. There was never a level playing field on which to build a true capitalist society. From the very beginning some folk had a distinct market advantage. Those folk have since done everything they need to do to maintain that. This has led to our current croney capitalist state. Collusion is rife, as in Libor. In the lobbies and boardrooms 'competing' interests actually work together to maintain this system. The vast majority of the political class are in it up to their necks and very much work with the plan.
    And I have to say that Corbyn may be a bit more left than new Labour but only just. He has no plan or intention to address anything of substance. Even the Greens stop way short of actual proper change.
    It pains me to say it but capitalism would actually be better than what we have now :(
  6. It pains me to say it but capitalism would actually be better than what we have now :(

    Have to agree with that.

    But lets see the reactions of those that want more of what we have got/getting more of.
  7. Are the predictions for the next 5 years or so the reason why Corbyn is not being seriously challenged as Labour leader, and he is not seriously challenging to win the election.

    A poisoned chalice? It is likely whoever is in power we are going to struggle to maintain living standards as a country. A big downhill ride for many. Who wants the label it will get them?

    Tongue in cheek comment, but some info to go with it.
    Deleted member 33931 likes this.
  8. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    It's an idea that's been bandied about, that the snap election is about buying time by pushing the 2020 election forward by a couple of years.
    I'd certainly think that was a factor in the decision. An insurance policy against potential troubles with Brexit.
    Whether the Tories are looking at predictions like that one you linked to or not I couldn't say but it's hardly out of the question.
    Is Corbyn looking at it? Dunno but the Labour lot haven't seemed to want to be in Downing Street for a while....I mean...Ed milliband? Really? :D
  9. Guess what? I suspect this is a deliberate and very cunningly-proffered poisoned chalice too.

    The Telegraph sees this as a 'major boost' for May - well, they would, wouldn't they...

    I have a somewhat different take.

    The negotiations have yet to begin. All 27 countries will likely want slightly different things from the UK as part of the dealing; all these countries have slightly different priorities. It's going to be hell work through this. Unbelievably complex for the UK.

    So what has the EU trade commissioner done with this comment - before the negotiations have even begun?! Yes, put into our minds an easy-to-achieve false expectation for May.

    So she'd better now manage it - or else she's stuffed.

    What she - Cecilia Malstrom - has effectively said, is:

    "Almost certainly - 'for sure' - the UK will get a free trade deal with the EU. That is on the table, there for the asking. Nice one, UK - we will hand you that as an outcome of the negotiations. Your supportive media has publicised this just as we hoped, and you even have minions on le ScrewFix forum peddling it for you. Excellent. That free trade outcome will now be the minimum expectation of you Brexiteers. You think you have it in the bag - we've effectively said you do. So, let's now negotiate and see what happens...

    Bear in mind, Mrs May, that if you now fail to get this free trade deal when we've said we practically expect you to get it, then it will be a very visible GIGANTIC failure on your part. And, to get this free trade deal, you will have to negotiate dozens, hundreds, thousands of issues with 27 different countries, each of which will have its own wishes and agenda. Each one of which can say 'Non' or 'Neine' or 'Ingen' or 'He' or 'Nee' or 'Ei' - you get the idea...

    So, Mrs May, what will you have to swallow to get the free trade deal that we dangled before you? Correct - too much for you to digest.

    When you ultimately fail to get this deal, which was so tantalisingly placed in your lap and which your followers wet themselves over in full expectation it was a 'given', where will you be? Yes, destroyed. Humiliated. On the scrap heap. I mean, how could you have been so incompetent as to fail to achieve even this when even the 'other side' expected you to have it?!"

    But I may be over-egging the case :)
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2017
  10. Please stop mentioning Ed Miliband and Corbyn - it's too depressing...
  11. So you are saying free trade is available to us? I agree, and guess what, we had that as a member of the EU. I also guess that the brexiteers want free trade too, a good reason to brexit then.

    But the big question, as you say. What goes with it to get us back to where we were? Free movement of people? No, the brexiters have clearly stated they don't want that.

    Now if trade with the rest of the world can replace free trade with th EU, why do the brexit crowd still want free trade?

    No matter which way you look at it, there does seem to be confusion a plenty for thise who knew EXACTLY what they were voting for by voting brexit.



    OUT OUT OUT...
    etc etc.
  13. fillyboy

    fillyboy Screwfix Select

    On the contrary I've made many friends and have a good social life, however, two people that I'm aware of have made it clear I'm not welcome, I've heard from other people that it's resentment over my work. If you haven't experienced this, that's great, I'm happy for you.
    P J Thompson likes this.
  14. fillyboy

    fillyboy Screwfix Select

    I would hazard a guess that most people in the construction industry are earning a lot less than they were 10 years ago, I suspect they would be delighted to be capped at a 1% pay rise every year.

  15. Oh I see.

    A 1% cap is good
  16. fillyboy

    fillyboy Screwfix Select

    Shut up Jack.
  17. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    Fair do's. I wouldn't put too much stead behind the bigoted views of two people myself....not enough to bring it into a forum debate like you did anyway :D
    Deleted member 164349 likes this.
  18. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    Or maybe just maybe, the EU realise that playing hardball could come back and bite them, after all the whole EU is hanging by a thread at the mo.

  19. Why?

    You don't like free speech ?

    Like others on here you say 1 thing, but really mean the opposite.

    Its confusion, lack of thought etc.

  20. Yes, just maybe.

    I think you have to accept they are in a stronger position than us though
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