Soooooooo,

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Jackoftrades said:
I might be wrong, but I think there are 27 other countries involved in the negotiations for brexit. All sat round the table facing us.

And they have to agree between themselves what they want to achieve, then and only then can we sit and discuss our terms.

But of course we can tell them what we want, because it is begging us to stay isn't it? Isn't it?
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Or Jack, and think about this seriously for a minute, I know you might find that difficult.
We could simply tell them to **** off and revert to WTO trading rules. It will be more of a hardship for them than us.
Really Jack, relax, it will all turn out fine, even for public servants.;)
 
fillyboy said:
Or Jack, and think about this seriously for a minute, I know you might find that difficult.
We could simply tell them to **** off and revert to WTO trading rules. It will be more of a hardship for them than us.
Really Jack, relax, it will all turn out fine, even for public servants.;)
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Ok I am thinking about that. Really thinking.

More of a hardship for them than for us on wto rules? You are really going to have to explain that.

Public servants on 1% pay cap is ok. Tell JJ maybe?
 
I think it's high time we all started to effectionately refer to these two with a more appropriate moniker.
DA, should be, 'Joyce'.
And, JoT, can be, William.

Very good.
 
Jackoftrades said:
I might be wrong, but I think there are 27 other countries involved in the negotiations for brexit. All sat round the table facing us.

And they have to agree between themselves what they want to achieve, then and only then can we sit and discuss our terms.

But of course we can tell them what we want, because it is begging us to stay isn't it? Isn't it?
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Not exactly. You tell me they have to agree between themselves what they want to achieve and then, and only then can we start negotiating?? Hmmm What about we start by telling them what we want to achieve first? Then they can sit together and discuss this? Surely this is the true spirit of negotiation, not them dictating to us when we can start negotiating with them? Someone has to start somewhere Jack, why can't it be us that starts the negotiating? Ohh I forgot, your beloved EU doesn't allow a mere member to start negotiations on their own do they? (dictatorship again) If we're leaving, we should not be bound by their dictatorial ways right from the start.
 
Jackoftrades said:
Ok I am thinking about that. Really thinking.

More of a hardship for them than for us on wto rules? You are really going to have to explain that.
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Then you need to think harder, better still, do some research, like others on here, I simply can't be arsed to explain everything to you in terms a small child might understand.

Jackoftrades said:
Public servants on 1% pay cap is ok. Tell JJ maybe?
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Yes it's fine, under Blair public sector pay grew to OBSCENE levels, ten years, maybe more capped at zero MIGHT just bring it back to the level it deserves to be, which historically was a few percent below private sector to compensate for the benefits such as final salary pension, plus sick leave at double the private sector levels, and a few months off each year for 'stress' thrown in for good measure.
 
joinerjohn1 said:
Not exactly. You tell me they have to agree between themselves what they want to achieve and then, and only then can we start negotiating?? Hmmm What about we start by telling them what we want to achieve first? Then they can sit together and discuss this? Surely this is the true spirit of negotiation, not them dictating to us when we can start negotiating with them? Someone has to start somewhere Jack, why can't it be us that starts the negotiating? Ohh I forgot, your beloved EU doesn't allow a mere member to start negotiations on their own do they? (dictatorship again) If we're leaving, we should not be bound by their dictatorial ways right from the start.
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Thats it exactly.

May told them how and what she wants to negotiate.

The 27 then get together and tell her WHAT and how they are going to negotiate.

Who has the upper hand ? It is not dictatorship, it is merely using your bargaining position to its best effect. At our expense.
 
fillyboy said:
Then you need to think harder, better still, do some research, like others on here, I simply can't be arsed to explain everything to you in terms a small child might understand.



Yes it's fine, under Blair public sector pay grew to OBSCENE levels, ten years, maybe more capped at zero MIGHT just bring it back to the level it deserves to be, which historically was a few percent below private sector to compensate for the benefits such as final salary pension, plus sick leave at double the private sector levels, and a few months off each year for 'stress' thrown in for good measure.
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I have explained how wto puts us in a much weaker position, but you cant explain the opposite?

We need the EU more than they need us, it is that simple. Wto rules makes us dearer and costs us more. How on earth does it weaken them.

As for the civil servants pay being capped being ok. I really dont see nurses, bin men etc as being overpayed. Maybe they are and I am out of touch.

A few years ago most of my work came from young professionals etc. Now most of it comes from landlords.

You say you dont want globilisation and establishment, but every time you make a comment you support it.

What do you want? I can't understand your logic.
 
P J Thompson said:
I stumbled upon this. It's an article about what may happen if trade goes to WTO rules, presented on a Brexiters website. I'm not qualified to comment but it seems interesting:

http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128
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Heavy reading, but some very sensible comments that are understandable.

Head in the sand attitude seems to be the approach to wanting wto terms.

But apparantly it will hurt them more than us, and they must be really panicking that we happy to force them into taking those terms. But I need to think much harder about it so I am told. I had dismissed wanting wto rules before brexit was even voted about, purely on the paperwork part of exporting and its associated costs and time.
 
fillyboy said:
Then you need to think harder, better still, do some research, like others on here, I simply can't be arsed to explain everything to you in terms a small child might understand.



Yes it's fine, under Blair public sector pay grew to OBSCENE levels, ten years, maybe more capped at zero MIGHT just bring it back to the level it deserves to be, which historically was a few percent below private sector to compensate for the benefits such as final salary pension, plus sick leave at double the private sector levels, and a few months off each year for 'stress' thrown in for good measure.
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And I think that really qualifies as

Shut up fillyboy, its rubbish
 
longboat said:
I think it's high time we all started to effectionately refer to these two with a more appropriate moniker.
DA, should be, 'Joyce'.
And, JoT, can be, William.

Very good.
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And we can refer to your side as the establishment.

Even better
 
longboat said:
I think it's high time we all started to effectionately refer to these two with a more appropriate moniker.
DA, should be, 'Joyce'.
And, JoT, can be, William.

Very good.
Click to expand...

Not bad.

But not a patch on The Daily Phail.

(That's ok - I quite like name-calling. As long as it's witty...)
 
Jackoftrades said:
Public servants on 1% pay cap is ok. Tell JJ maybe?
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Tell me Jack,, what are MP's if they are not public servants? They should be given the exact same % rise as any other public servant. They should not have expenses paid for living in hotels, whilst they have second homes within the capital. Stop them renting out second homes and claiming hotel costs. Any MP with a second home in London, should be automatically barred from being allowed to claim hotel costs. If MP's can claim travelling expenses to and from work, then all public servants , should be entitled to claim for travelling to and from work. If MP's claim for meals, then all other public servants should also be entitled to claim for meals, whilst at work.
I'd go further and say that Jeremy Hunt,(so called Minister for Health) should be made to work for three months in the NHS, so he gets an idea of the pressures faced by NHS staff (whilst being paid the same wage NHS staff earn) Give him a few weeks on a surgical ward, a few weeks as a porter, a few weeks on a dementia ward, a few weeks in A&E a few weeks on A&E reception, a few weeks on a Macmillan ward and a few weeks working on an acute ward. All 12.5 hr shifts, including night shifts and weekends. At least if it does nothing else, it would open his bloody eyes.
 
joinerjohn1 said:
Tell me Jack,, what are MP's if they are not public servants? They should be given the exact same % rise as any other public servant. They should not have expenses paid for living in hotels, whilst they have second homes within the capital. Stop them renting out second homes and claiming hotel costs. Any MP with a second home in London, should be automatically barred from being allowed to claim hotel costs. If MP's can claim travelling expenses to and from work, then all public servants , should be entitled to claim for travelling to and from work. If MP's claim for meals, then all other public servants should also be entitled to claim for meals, whilst at work.
I'd go further and say that Jeremy Hunt,(so called Minister for Health) should be made to work for three months in the NHS, so he gets an idea of the pressures faced by NHS staff (whilst being paid the same wage NHS staff earn) Give him a few weeks on a surgical ward, a few weeks as a porter, a few weeks on a dementia ward, a few weeks in A&E a few weeks on A&E reception, a few weeks on a Macmillan ward and a few weeks working on an acute ward. All 12.5 hr shifts, including night shifts and weekends. At least if it does nothing else, it would open his bloody eyes.
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Didnt read it thoroughly, just scanned it.

But I agree. I don't want the establishment in power to give us even more of it.

I know some nurses well, what they tell me scares me.

I don't know many poor MP's, but the reason they have been awrded a big rise is to keep the remuneration appealing enough to attract the oxbridge priviliged claases want to be an MP. There are some there from humble origins, and for the right reasons. But there are too many there from the ruling classes for the package not the belief.

I don't support them, or want more of it.

But fillyboy does

You might be beginning to see how I mean he says he wants 1 thing, but supports the opposite.

But then, that applies to you too. You want more of it by your support for the establushed system
 
Jackoftrades said:
have explained how wto puts us in a much weaker position, but you cant explain the opposite?

We need the EU more than they need us, it is that simple. Wto rules makes us dearer and costs us more. How on earth does it weaken them.
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Good grief man, wto would probably mean a 3-5% tarrif at most, currency fluctuations in any year can mean a 10% difference. You do realise we're
not in the Euro, we have a different currency, you do realise that don't you?

How do we need the EU more than us? we import more from them, that makes them more dependant on us surely, you must understand basic sums, William.
 
fillyboy said:
Good grief man, wto would probably mean a 3-5% tarrif at most, currency fluctuations in any year can mean a 10% difference. You do realise we're
not in the Euro, we have a different currency, you do realise that don't you?

How do we need the EU more than us? we import more from them, that makes them more dependant on us surely, you must understand basic sums, William.
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Lets watch our prices rise and our incomes fall then?

On top of wto tariffs, think about the rules, just think about the import/export paperwork and systems? I hear Dover, and other ports are all ready working on preparing systems for longer queues and holdups at the ports. Want to factor that into the 10% + 3-5% increases?

And that is before any further falls in the £ value.

That might demonstrate it a little more clearly.

Been to the zoo lately? Seen any ostrich's ?

Shut up filly, you are talking rubbish
 
joinerjohn1 said:
I'd go further and say that Jeremy Hunt,(so called Minister for Health) should be made to work for three months in the NHS, so he gets an idea of the pressures faced by NHS staff (whilst being paid the same wage NHS staff earn) Give him a few weeks on a surgical ward, a few weeks as a porter, a few weeks on a dementia ward, a few weeks in A&E a few weeks on A&E reception, a few weeks on a Macmillan ward and a few weeks working on an acute ward. All 12.5 hr shifts, including night shifts and weekends. At least if it does nothing else, it would open his bloody eyes.
Click to expand...

Like Jimmy Saville?:eek:
 
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