sorry new post, flux from airing cupboard cleaned but cannot clean it from pipes in loft

Discussion in 'Engineers' Talk' started by lady_new_2_diy, May 8, 2018.

  1. Hi @Devil's Advocate I really appreciate you taking the time to help me.
    Although the photos don't show, the cut is about half an inch long. It was way too awkward to get a photo, as I had to shine a torch as well as use my camera flash.
    If you have time, i will go back in the loft and check right now.
    I've moved the green and yellow earth bond accidentally, could that cause a danger in any way? Sorry for all the questions.
     
  2. The green/yellow cable is fine - it would take a HUGE amount of concentrated attack to cause damage to it!

    By all means try and get a better photo - without actually touching that bare wire of course - but, failing that, just get a sparky in to look at it. Forget the terms of your lease - if you have a cable that needs attention, then you have a cable that needs attention.

    If I don't reply tonight, it's 'cos I'm in bed - which is where you should be. Your own bed, I mean... :oops:

    Sleep tight.

    Please leave the photographs until tomorrow - I PROMISE you now't is gonna happen up there tonight :)
     
    lady_new_2_diy likes this.
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  4. Hi @Devil's Advocate
    Here's two photos with questions on. The first photo shows two cuts in the cable and the second cut shows exposed copper pipe where plumber cut lagging too short.
    Also, the lagging has gaps, plus he has used pipe lagging which has a wider bore than the pipes, making the lagging loose. He hasnt taped some of the joins and the laggging on some of the pipes is exposing the copper pipe through the slit cut in the laggging for installation. I am worried about 1) sweating pipes due to gaps, condensation dripping onto cables, and I wonder if any of the plumbers tools could have caused the cuts in the cables.
    Here are the two photos-first one shows the cuts and whether or not the plumber could have cut the cables with his tools by accident
    two cuts plumners tools.jpg
    2nnd one shows red arrow where there is bare pipe, please also note there is lots of other bare pipe, elbows not covered properly, pipe copper exposed due to improper lagging. i dunno who on here deals with pipe lagging, but i thought heating engineers would as its to do with pipes, sorry if i am wrong, just worried that in summer as hot air common, even cold pipes not in loft may sweat as i have one cold pipe from toilet which is boxed in with plasterboard and uncovered and very cold.
    The red arrow makes it easier to see one of the bare bits-thanks
    bare pipe red arrow.jpg
     
  5. Astramax

    Astramax Well-Known Member

    Any rodent droppings in the loft?
     
  6. I can't see any in that area but loft 10 metres long by aabout 5 metres wide and at opposite end there was some squirrel nuts which i have a photo of, i managed to take it when gas safe engineer took vennt of ceiling and i poked camera up hole, so i know rodents have visited. Also there have been rat droppings in the crawl space and under the bath/shower, as bathroom in roof iin front of crawl space and old owner made holes in wall for pipes which rodents have crawled through. Theres been quite a few rat droppings on my level. There is access for rodents to get into loft from crawlspace but as loft is so big, I cannnot say as its not safe for me to go into loft as there is only plaster board floor.
     
  7. facilities

    facilities Guest

    Really need to determine what rodents, could be mice rats or squirrels, if it helps squirrel droppings taste of nuts
     
  8. I know mice haven't been near the pipes near the loft hatch cos there would be turds all over. I had them in the last two houses and they leave trails of turds as they are incontinent.
    I know squirrels and rats have been.
     
  9. facilities

    facilities Guest

    :eek:
     
  10. Astramax

    Astramax Well-Known Member

    Just wondering if that cable has been nibbled.
     
  11. We were discussing that above, no turds nearby though, so i wonder if the plumber could have cut it by accident?

    Also, who would I get advice about inadequate lagging from cos ive been googling and it says that lagging with gaps or lagging which is too loose is likely to sweat and drip in humid hot weather, and freeze in colder weather despite the plumber saying there is nothing wrong with the lagging even though bare pipe and bare elbows are exposed and not taped or closed properly.
     
  12. It's really hard to tell what's caused that damage to the cable. It certainly is not flux and it certainly not heat.

    It could be a dirty rat - your plumber or a rodent :). My first suspicion would be a nibbling mousie - it does have that kind of appearance - but if there are no other indicators of their presence, then it would seem unlikely. Mind you, I guess squirrels like a bit of plastic with their nuts too?

    You said there was some exposed copper sire inside that cut - is there? If so, can you get a close-up? That will determine whether a few wraps of insulating tape is all that's needed. (I would still place a mouse trap, tho', and keep monitoring it).

    As for the gaps in the lagging, that is a bit sloppy of the other rat, but hardly a capital offence. Yes, condensation can form on cold pipes, but I'd be astonished if that led to actual drips forming - especially in such small areas. Risk of freezing? I'd say virtually zero.

    It's not a work of pride, tho', so the plumber was a bit shoddy. Your call - either get him to cut small sections to slip on there and duct tape over any loose corners or else spend a nice half-hour up there yourself :).

    Your flat is not going to 'leak' or 'burn' or 'electrocute' anybody or anything, tho'. Hard to judge the actual likelihood, but I'd have thought it would be in the order of being struck thrice by lightning.

    Chill - and enjoy your 'new' flat. Are you in regular contact with a doctor for your anxiety?
     
  13. hi @Devil's Advocate Can i speak on pm about my anxiety as i dont want it in the public domain?
    I find it stressful going up in the loft, its almost impossible to get a close up cos of the difficulty reaching it and the awkward position, plus it fuels my anxiety even more.
    There is exposed copper wire inside the cut.
    The big worry is, how bad is the rest of the loft as its 10 metres long and 5 metres wide approximately, so there could be worse damage and a disaster waiting to happen in other areas of the loft.
    A bath today might be ok but more baths in future may set off fires in other damaged areas I know nothing about, not having been the full lentth of the loft and not knowing what other type of damage the plumber might have caused.

    The pipe that I am worrried about condensing is the cold water feed pipe to the toilet, it is long, horizontal and unlagged, and feels freezing to the touch. On Sunny days, could this condense and drip?
    Also, what plumbers tool could cause such cuts in the wire?
     
  14. You are welcome to PM if you wish.

    The exposed copper wire should be sorted, so I think it's worth getting a sparky in if you don't wish to tackle this yourself. If - as it looks - only a small side part of one wire's covering is partly nibbled, then insulating tape will be fine to sort it. If, however, a whole circular section of insulation is missing on a wire inside, then that needs the wire to be separated from the others and insulated properly. I doubt it's that bad, but it does warrant a check.

    Meanwhile, it ain't going to go on fire...

    As for the lack of lagging of teeny tiny sections of pipe, I have worse in my own loft - and that was me doing the work :oops:. Honestly, the chances of this causing any issue is soooo remote as to be infinitesimal.

    Of all the possibly causes of the damaged cable - and there ain't many - it having been done by the plumber is the most unlikely. I think you should dismiss this likelihood from your mind - it's a bit unfair on the guy.
     
  15. Hi @Devil's Advocate
    The problem is, although that wire is only partially broken, I don't know if there are any other wires in the loft that have a whole circular section of insulation missing on a wire inside.
    I'm not allowed in the loft and I need permission from the building owner to let anyone in the loft, I should not have let the plumber inside the loft but i mis read the building owner's letter saying he had no problem letting tradesmen in my property, meaning excluding the loft.

    What about the toilet inlet pipe, that is bare, unreachable, really long and it gets cold, freezing cold, I heard that on a hot humid day they condensate and drips can form and these could soak the concrete below it and rot the timber on the underside of the concrete, above the plasterboard in the flat below, causing dry rot.?

    When you say the exposed wire should be sorted, what will happen if i leave it, as sparky not allowed in loft and it stresses me out too much to go in there?
     
  16. What will happen if you leave it? Virtually certainly nothing - it's barely a scratch.

    How do you know there aren't other - possibly worse - cables up there? You don't. Nor do I (and I'm talking about my own house...).

    Should you worry? No. Why? 'Cos what you worry might happen almost certainly won't. Worry about stuff that could happen - like forgetting to look before crossing the road.

    Do you look heavenwards when out walking so you can avoid potential bolts of lightning? No, of course not. And yet this is more likely to happen than your house going damp through condensation from these pipes or on fire due to a leccy fault. Nobody worries about that sort of stuff becuase it's infinitesimally unlikely.

    Do you worry about the effects of Brexit? What? You DON'T?! You should... :D
     
    lady_new_2_diy and Dam0n like this.
  17. Hi @Devil's Advocate I'm a bit worried because ive had rodents visit before and there are plenty cables in the loft.
    Can they really cause a fire if they bite through cables or is all the info on that just over exaggerated?
     
  18. Astramax

    Astramax Well-Known Member

    They also get electrocuted.
     
  19. seiously can they really cause a fire, its a horrible thought
     
  20. facilities

    facilities Guest

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