Spur off FCU supply is this right?

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Mjsey, Aug 10, 2020.

  1. Mjsey

    Mjsey New Member

    Hi,

    Just after a bit of confirmation.
    • We needed a new 2 gang socket above kitchen worktop.
    • After pulling out a kitchen cabinet for a tumble drier, we also needed a 1 gang socket underneath worktop with an appliance grid switch above work top to match other appliances.
    • Nearest supply was a switched FCU (@3Amp) wired in downstairs ring main for cooker hood
    I assumed (maybe incorrectly) that what was required above would have been fed off the FCU load as is the cooker hood, so when the FCU switch would be off it would in turn also isolate these new sockets.

    Electrican has done the following, but isn't this effectively a spur off a spur (between 2gang sockets and grid switch)?


    Screenshot 2020-08-10 at 17.27.46.png

    Also would it not be better to either tap in to ring main and add additional FCU for this new circuit?
    Or used the the existing FCU load?






    Many thanks,
     
  2. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    Does look like a spur off a spur. If he had taken the feed off the load side of the fcu it would probably pop the fuse as it's only 3a. Did he give you any paperwork?
     
  3. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Yes. What he's done is not allowed.
     
  4. Mjsey

    Mjsey New Member

    Thanks for your reply. I have an invoice, shouldn't be a problem to get him back to rectify.

    Should an additional FCU with a greater fuse rating be used added to the ring main alongside the the other fcu then the new fcu load would feed the circuit? Or is there a better solution?
     
  5. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    Did he give you any certificates, something with test results on it, called a minor works cert. Doesn't sound like it. A better solution would be to extend the ring to include the extra sockets. The fcu fuse probably can't be upgraded as I suspect the hood is fed in 1mm or 1.5mm, too small for a 13a fuse.
     
  6. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    1.5mm2 is ok for 13A fuse. If the cable to the hood is 1.5mm2, put the cable to the new part on the load side of it and put a 13A fuse in it.
     
  7. Mjsey

    Mjsey New Member

    Thanks, if thats possible, it might have been what was intended by him and a slight oversight and would be fairly trivial to rectify.

    So something like this?

    upload_2020-8-10_19-11-35.png
     
  8. Mjsey

    Mjsey New Member

    No he did not. Is it a legal requirement? I will chase for one too regardless.

    :(Not sure whether its going to be easy to extend the ring without re chasing out the plaster work again.
     
  9. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    Personally I would get someone else. Sounds like he is totally clueless.
     
  10. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    Chances are you will be drawing more than 13a through the fcu on a fairly regular basis. Depends what you plug into the socket and whats on at the time. It's what is know as a short overload. Plus termination two different sized cables in one terminal, yuk. Not good design.
     
  11. Mjsey

    Mjsey New Member

    Fair enough.

    There is a 2gang socket near by which is on the cooker circuit for the over and integrated microwave, theres a chance for the the additional socket could spur off that?
    Failing that, it's not fully essential that I have the 2 gang socket above so I can afford to scrap it in the worst case scenario.

    Gone back to the drawing board so if I have something like this instead, which would effectively just be a spur off the fcu to the grid switch, the FCU would remain as is so this should be permissible right? I know the 1 gang grid switch would act as a switch for both, guess I cant have 2 separate ones in this case?


    upload_2020-8-10_20-46-28.png
     
  12. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    Why can't you just extend the ring and put the sockets on that? Most kitchens surface mount the cable at kick board height on the wall behind the units then come up behind and chased into the wall.
     
    Mjsey and Robot Enthusiast like this.
  13. Agree with this. You are not allowed to spur in kitchens. But if you extend the ring (one more cable) then you are fine and your spark can sign it off for you.
     
  14. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    What do you mean 'you are not allowed to spur in kitchens'?
     
  15. Could you quote me the Regulation for that nonsense please.
     
  16. I was always taught that you were not supposed to spur off a spur (socket from a socket on the ring) in kitchens. Not sure if this just a good practice measure as the kitchen has the potential for high loading. I probably could have chosen my wording better.
     
  17. Hi Deleted member 11267,

    Apologies. I cant find the reg because it isnt there. I misread the post and the diagram. I was taught never to spur off a spur (socket from a socket) in a kitchen due to the high loading potential. I think this was just a good practice method used by my employer. We always had to extend the ring.
     
  18. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Why just kitchens? It applies to a ring final circuit anywhere, not just kitchens.
     
  19. Mjsey

    Mjsey New Member

    Extend the ring from the fcu as thats already on the downstairs ring? Otherwise the next nearest available socket is 3 metres away with a number of cabinets, hob etc the way which is why I wondered whether a spur from the cooker sockets would be more feasible as its closer
     

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