Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by NOLID, Mar 11, 2004.

  1. Nailed

    Nailed New Member


    Laugh all you want - it doesn't bother me.

    I still think that Wolf is right.

    Right, I'm off to invent some new chisels...
  2. WOLF

    WOLF New Member

    firstly cadmaster, my youngest step son is 32!!!!!! yes!!! quite... butt pain..

    now then, johnjin, i still have yet to have a full response from this alf guy!! totally evasive as to WHAT woodworking experience he has had,20 years of what, sweeping floors.. it's still wooodworking!! and when one of my joiners saw his reply to the chisel's statement, i had to virtually pick him up off the floor as he could not stand for laughing at the guy!! the books he keeps refering to are COLLECTORS books
    he also states he can not find this bevel edged firmer chisel for paring anywhere, well check out his posting on sunday, and you will see that HE bought up this item.. and from his last posting it is fairly obvious that the guy 1) collects old tools, probably for the money, and 2) only tinkers in woodwork, due to his statement of woodwork for pleasure, against woodwork for money, i do my job because i LOVE TIMBER, and as a bonus, i make money from it.... to be honest the old plane in his forum name, he could probably only name it from a book, let alone use it, where as my staff and i, can actually use it and DO!!!!!!! as there a 3 in the workshop!!!!!
    regards matt
  3. woodsmith

    woodsmith New Member

    Johnjin you wrote, "People like Wordsmith And Wolf could do a lot of good there and I am sure their help and advice would be appreciated."

    It has not quite worked out that way. The truth is the UKW is a clique for amateur woodworkers, and they don't want anyone on their site with a lot more knowledge than they have, contradicting the ** advice they are giving, which is why Wolf is getting it in the neck.

  4. Dewy

    Dewy New Member

    It doesnt take long to realise who knows what they are talking about Keith.
    I read all the posts on this forum when I 1st saw it & have never blindly accepted what someone else says as gospel.
    I use my own experiences from the past & can soon see who has experience & knowlege as opposed to just reading books.
    This started about about stain & varnish. I used a stain,varnish twice & was disappointed with the result.
    I now use danish oil & wax on top of a water based stain & the wood looks alive.
    You may as well use melamine chipboard as use varnish on wood.
    How often do you actually see mortice chisels on sale in shops now? All they seem to have is bevel ones. I'm glad I still have the same mortice chisels I bought over 35 years ago. A quick rub on the oil stone keeps them as sharp as ever & they've had some use over the years.
  5. woodsmith

    woodsmith New Member

    Now Dewy you know I am the varnisher round here;)

    As for chisels if you look after them they will last several lifetimes as I regularly use chisels which I bought in the last millenium and then they were second hand
  6. Dewy

    Dewy New Member

    Keith, Next thing you will be telling us is that your tools are 2 millenia old & you were the biblical carpenter who can walk on water. ;)
  7. johnjin

    johnjin New Member

    Yes and I still think you both could have done a lot of good there. But to me it seemed like especially from Wolf that he went there to try to tear the site pieces. As for you, you had a very unpolite reply to what I believe was your first post there and I was very disappointed at that. If that had happened to me I would have been extremely pisssed off to say the least. The site in my opinion is a good one and I am very happy to frequent it. They have never advocated dangerous practices as far as I am aware. As far as the Saw guide poll is concerned it showed exactly what it was supposed to show in my opinion, just how many are working without guards. If you don't know how many people are doing something wrong it's a bit difficult to help to put it right. Yes they need more skilled people on the site and it is growing constantly. However shouting and ranting at people is not the way to go about changing their methods or their skills. For Wolf to come back here and say they are all a load of tosspots is hardly the right way to go about anything. As for professional or amateur people frequenting the site I don't see that that makes any difference at all. Yes there maybe some bad advice given at various times and sometimes maybe even dangerous advice but then it is a forum after all said and done. I have seen plenty of bad advice given on the screwfix forum but it has usually been corrected by someone else. Well screwfix is a large forum and therefore it stands to reason that there is more lightly to be someone around who can give the correct advice. As I said at the beginning they could definitely have done with some input from you and Wolf but not in the way it was done. The site is a private site and I think it fulfills a useful role and as the site grows it will improve.
    Anyway many thanks for listening
  8. woodsmith

    woodsmith New Member

    John I asked aperfectly reasonable question and by your own admission I had a very unpolite response, why did no one else on the site correct this, they would have done here?

    They then start a thread as to whether they wanted people like me on the site. They asked me to demonstrate bad advice I and I picked the moderator as he is " the foremost expert on tools in Europe", plasterboard walls in a workshop? buying US 110v tools from the US? and then everyone seemed to wade in to have a go at me. I did privately get some support but I think tosspots is very mild.

    And bandsaws to cut up frozen meat? Yes I got pisssed off.
  9. Charley

    Charley New Member


    My name is Charley Fell and I run UKW. I thought I’d reply with some comments.

    Yes UKW is aimed at beginners & hobbyists. I take safety very seriously and I hope that all the advice in my projects and how-to guides is safe. If you disagree with this, then please let me know and I’ll update it.

    Of course there may be some bad advice on the forum; but it’s a forum - an open message board used by hundreds of members all with different skills & opinions. You’ll find that most of the time when a member posts bad advice you’ll get other members replying, saying so. I’m sure that there must also be bad advice posted on this forum from time to time?

    The poll about the table saw guard on the main page is still there, but I’ve just added a new poll. The results are worrying but that’s what polls are for and any visitor should have enough sense to realise that UKW doesn’t recommend using a table saw without the guard. In the previous poll about which wood you prefer to use ‘Oak’ came out top, but this does not imply that oak is the wood that should be used in all projects.

    Wolf, I’m the only administrator on the site and I did not send you a message. If you mean a ‘moderator’ please contact me with the message and I’ll look into it.

    As for varnishes – I never recommend using them on fine furniture!

    I value any constructive criticism and will always act upon it. I do not like however, unfair criticism without a chance to defend myself! I take pride in UKW and as mentioned earlier, it is primarily aimed to help beginners & hobbyists. From the emails and comments I receive, I believe it is working!
  10. Charley

    Charley New Member

    Woodsmith, I really don’t want to get into an argument over this but I would like to reply to your last post. “the foremost expert on tools in Europe" ???? Where has this come from?

    If you re-read my post about plaster board I only ‘thought’ about using it then said why I wasn’t going to use it and then after my post another member replied “plasterboard won't take any knocks and bumps when you swing that 2m board round and -crash- into the wall” so we didn’t recommend it at all.
  11. WOLF

    WOLF New Member

    Firstly, thank you Charley Fell for actually replying to our topic of conversation here, as a whole, and i have to agree with Woodsmith, your site layout, ease of navigation etc is very good, we/i am impressed,
    my reply to yourgood self and a few others is this.... i did not under no circumstances go to your site to pick holes, i went there purely out of interest as many a person here, had commented upon the site....i signed in and duely nav'd around to see what was going on... some area's amused me, some i did and do find interesting and informative, some postings and replies were, in all honesty down right daft and some even dangerous..... i personally will not venture where and when i know nothing about the subject, which is why i ask questions from people i KNOW to be PROFESSIONAL..and can back up the answer with real substance..
    but when reading post's and then the person's profile, to find out they only "dabble" in timber, is to me rather un-nerving.... especially when they try and tell you that you know nothing about the subject....i have spent my whole life associated with timber, and love it more than life it's self...
    as for being told that i am un welcome, it was a short message in the private messanger system, telling me if i don't agree, then "BASICLLY" go away, signed only "moderator".. the did not have the ability to state who they were....if i was that way inclinded i could have not bothered with any real info regards myself and just attacked the site in secret... i too know enough re: comp's to do this but DO not....
    Charley, i will just state, for your own benefit, please put up a dislcaimer re: the guards etc, and regrads to answers, like this site has done, as you are as the sites instigator, still LEGALLY responsible foir what is on there with out a full disclaimer...
    my company website got a thumbs down for having a guard not in place(local hse..) which is why it has not be aired yet....
    so lets hope this will be an end to this and good luck, i might just take you up on the offer of looking over the whole site , if i ever get a spare day or too...
    kindest regards matt
    p.s sorry it's a long post, didn't fall asleep did you!!!
  12. woodsmith

    woodsmith New Member

    Charley thanks for coming and putting your point of view.

    With regard to polls, I think that as your poll showed such a worrying trend, it would have been wise to take action. I still feel that leaving it on your home page encouraged those less knowledgeable to think it was an acceptable procedure.

    As I left there were many posts from people saying they never use a guard, again encouraging the beginner in unsafe practices. Are you not worried about litigation?

    I think I was treated pretty shabbily on your site, I gave your members a great opportunity to give some feedback to someone who could make a difference; especially after all the complaints they had made in a previous thread, but only one person replied in a positive way.

    Your site could be very good, the design and layout is excellent but you need to keep a tighter rein on things.

  13. woodsmith

    woodsmith New Member

    Charley, as I said before you were the hardest target and I was pushed into a corner, the plasterboard was on your post and I just picked it.

    As for "the foremost expert" it is a mis-quote from your site, sorry, it actually read "Alf is one of the worlds authorities on hand tools" and no one corrected it?

    I really liked your site, I am sorry it has ended up this way.

  14. Charley

    Charley New Member

    Thanks for replying guys :)

    Wolf you’re right about a disclaimer for UKW It is something that I’ve been meaning to add for awhile, I’ll make sure it gets added tomorrow.

    Keith, I have to agree about the reply to your post on ‘UK Magazines revisited’ and I too would probably taken it the same way you did - but by the time I read it things had already started to kick off..

    I’ll keep a closer eye on things in future and hope you’ll keep visiting the site..
  15. WOLF

    WOLF New Member

    just a small point charley, how come my pass words are no longer accepted on your site......
  16. Charley

    Charley New Member

    I'm not sure. FYI The password is case sensitive. If you still can't get in email me from the address you registered withand your username and I'll reset your password.
  17. WOLF

    WOLF New Member

    Thank youCharley
    regards matt:
  18. Dewy

    Dewy New Member

    OOPS our paths crossed.

    Charley. I just sent you a PM on UKW about Matt being unable to logon. :(
    You can discount it now.
  19. NOLID

    NOLID New Member

    very small hello ppl.I'm sorry I seemed to have stirred up a hornets nest,I should have stuck to nuclear/physics and laser/magnetic/damage.there I would be on home ground,I was just trying to make a nice surface an a bedside table,glad it wasn't a refectory table or a fine peice of furniture,accept my appologies for my ignorance and stirring up rivalry's,I will be most careful if ever I post again,I stand admonished Wolf,trust you were not to miffed,good woodworking to all,NOLID
  20. woodsmith

    woodsmith New Member

    Nolid, absolutely no reason to apologise (except the comi stain and varnish);)

    Wolf's advice re disclaimer may well save Charley from a nightmare.

    There are hopefully fewer people on that site willing to use saws without guards.

    Charley and I have exchanged some very friendly private messages and as far as I am concerned all is well.

    Woodworking is a potentially dangerous pastime, we need to ensure there are few accidents or the government will bring out part ZZ of the building regs and only allow carpentry and the use of power tools by the "Qualified"


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