Staining Garden furniture which product?

Discussion in 'Painters' Talk' started by handymandy, Jun 4, 2020.

  1. handymandy

    handymandy New Member

    Been asked to stain table and chairs walnut. obvisouly will sand and de-dust and 2/3 coat.

    Just wondering any particular preference or reason to use a particular external stain over another.

    Table will obviously have more water pooling on it than chairs will, but not as much as the grooves in a deck would. Should I be using a deck stain on the table top? Or should I mix a yatch varnish into the topcoat with the stain? Anyone done this before, is it worth doing or does it just involve more sanding in the future when top coating again in 5 years? I want it to be solid for at least 3 years.

    I'm looking at the Ronseal brand,
    used the quick drying stain on windows before, it must be suitable for furniture aswell?
    the furniture stain has a 3 year limit, which is a bit low for my liking, also stain colour range is tiny.
    then there is the 10 year ronseal stain?

    I'm tending towards the quickdrying at present.

    If an expereinced head could offer some advice it would be A1.

    thanks
    table.png
     
  2. rogerk101

    rogerk101 Screwfix Select

    I usually just sand the top down with a random orbital sander and then apply garden furniture oil (available from our hosts).
    No need for a stain, as it will just make a beautifully dark wood even darker ... too dark.
    I would NEVER use a varnish as that is why the wood is in such a mess already. Had the wood only ever had oil applied to it, it would still be looking great, especially if you just add a single coat of oil every year.
     
    Astramax likes this.
  3. Astramax

    Astramax Super Member

    Sikkens Cetol filter 7 plus if you must stain. Ronseal products are aimed at the DIY market. Totally agree with Roger's advice should have been regularly oiled.
     
  4. handymandy

    handymandy New Member

    Your obviously a wood appreciater, I can see the oil being the sexier finisher. The oil route is just a rub with a lint free cloth, isn't it?

    Might be able to convince her away from walnut, it all depends on how dark the wood gets, it looks like teak?

    Is there any option of puting a stain under and then top coating with oil?

    Trying to keep this under 2 1/2 days labour (6 chairs and 1 large table)

    Thanks Rog
     
  5. rogerk101

    rogerk101 Screwfix Select

    The best way to see what wood would look like if oiled is to sand a small area of it down to bare wood and then wet it with water. That's roughly the colour that it'll take on when oiled.

    Yes, but then that would be real stain, with no varnish component to it. In other words just a wood colorant. You can always oil on top of that. The snag with staining is that it's really hard to get consistency. Some areas will suck up the stain and make the wood really dark, while other areas might not take in much stain at all, leaving it really pale. There's no knowing until you try it, but once you've tried it it's too late to back out of it. You risk ruining your furniture with stain, making it all blotchy. The areas that were once varnished may have had some varnish soak into the wood, and those areas will never take on stain evenly.

    Very doable with sanding and oiling ... unlikely with sanding, staining and oiling.
     
    handymandy likes this.
  6. Astramax

    Astramax Super Member

    Best applied by brush, leave to soak and wipe off excess.
     
    handymandy likes this.
  7. handymandy

    handymandy New Member

    Sound, thanks for your time Rog, I have seen inconsistent staining before due to not removing all previous varnish and it not only looks awful but the old varnish lifts at a different rate to the newly applied stain and basically it's a botch job fom then on, resulting in darker and darker stains being applied.

    Going to do what you advised, sand back all previous varnish and then wet the wood to show herself what it will look like when oiled.

    That approach is probably the best for selling the oil job.
     
  8. Astramax

    Astramax Super Member

    Would be a better choice to use an opaque wood finish rather than slog yourself out trying to get life back into that lot, look at Dulux Opaque or Sadolin Beautiflex Solvent Opaque Woodstain.
     
  9. DIYDave.

    DIYDave. Screwfix Select

    I've used this product a few times before on very similar furniture actually
    Teak garden table, chairs and sun loungers

    https://www.screwfix.com/p/liberon-teak-oil-teak-1ltr/7032x

    Had been previously oiled but not for years and lived permanently uncovered in the garden
    Sanded them all down as wood was rough to the touch
    Washed down with stiff bristle brush and hot sugar soap solution as patches of green growth and general dirt
    Wash down with clean water
    Left several days to fully dry (nice warm summer days)
    3 coats of teak oil

    Furniture had naturally gone silvery and the natural colour and beauty had been bleached out and weathered badly
    This oil is lightly tinted (or natural colour maybe ?) but really enhances the wood, protects it and returns the natural teak colour - personally I don't like the aged silver look the timber had acquired)

    Problem you have is removing all traces of the previous varnish - if that is the previous coating ?

    Soft wire brush (brass) and foam sanding pads may be good here, can use both wet maybe with hot sugar soap solution

    As to labour and time as a paying customer - depends what kind of job they want, your labour rate and what they're prepared to pay

    Not unusually, the prep stages are going to take way longer than apply the oil, be it 2/3 coats then allowing drying time in-between and polishing off excess oil

    Then you've got drying time after prep and wash down stages. Depending on weather could take a few days so you need to work elsewhere in-between and return to oil table, on 2/3 separate visits

    How you cost that lot out I have no idea :)

    My effort was a 'love' job for the MIL, 10 mins round the corner to us so no problem over several days

    I have some pictures somewhere on my pc, will try and find them
     
    handymandy likes this.
  10. Astramax

    Astramax Super Member

    Dave here this weeks Top Tip:- use a pressure washer next time comes up like new within minutes, then apply oil when fully dry.
     
    handymandy likes this.
  11. DIYDave.

    DIYDave. Screwfix Select

    Cheers Astra thanks

    Didn't have one then when I did MIL furniture but do own one now

    Manual washing and scrubbing is good though, gives you an all over body workout
    The more we replace these tasks with machines, the lazier and less fit we become

    I do take your point though and so bought one a couple of years ago. Some jobs just cant be matched by manual labour alone, that I get

    Fot the OP's table though, he's gotta remove all the old varnish (if it is varnish on there) ?

    would a pressure washer alone do this job, guess depends on machine
     
    handymandy likes this.
  12. handymandy

    handymandy New Member

    Thanks will bear that in mind for fencing and the like, don't want to rip the wood, or loosen the slats
     
  13. handymandy

    handymandy New Member

    Their are a few silvery bits leeching around the edges so I might have similar problem. Thanks for that post Dave, screwfix in Ireland not offering me that brand of teak oil but I have used OSMO teak oils before but on new wood and liked the product.

    Timewise I'm ok, just around the corner and juggeling some other jobs for same client so can tip in and out. I will investigate table with a sander next week.

    No pressure but would love to see a few shots if you find them just to gauge how set back the silvery bits go with teak oil.

    Is there a simple way of finding out if the previous product was oil or water based?

    Thanks again D
     
  14. Astramax

    Astramax Super Member

    Pressure washer would make little to no difference over sealed varnish.
     
    handymandy likes this.
  15. DIYDave.

    DIYDave. Screwfix Select

    That’s what I thought so suggested brass wire brush, sanding and sugar soap wash down and plenty, plenty of elbow grease !

    Definitely wouldn’t be having a ‘Brucie Bonnus’ after that lot :eek:
     
    handymandy likes this.
  16. DIYDave.

    DIYDave. Screwfix Select


    I’ve been transferring all my photos onto offline storage, they're in the ‘cloud’ but having trouble retrieving them - waiting for my IT savvy sons to sort out

    So taking a screen shot, maybe be ok to get an idea on colour, before and after

    As for supply of oil, widely available online

    Yes the Osmo range is superb, used the Polyx on oak skirts
     
    handymandy likes this.
  17. Astramax

    Astramax Super Member

    Point of interest...watched a guy yesterday from a distance treating his year old shed and said to him that it had come up very well what had he used to treat it with.....Clear Decking Oil he replied,..... it looks amazing, one for the future me thinks. ;)
     
  18. Astramax

    Astramax Super Member

    Would that not contravene 'Social Distancing' Dave if you did have?
     
  19. Glass Hammer

    Glass Hammer New Member

    Why not use Nitromors paint stripper on the last bits of varnish?
    If the old finish was varnish you will see the stripper bubble up.
    Oil is the best finish for patio furniture - my preference is boiled linseed. If a darker shade is needed, mix spirit stain into the oil.

    Best water-based paint that I have used for timber patio furniture is Cuprinol Shades. Used it for many years now.
     
    handymandy likes this.
  20. handymandy

    handymandy New Member

    Thanks for all the tips n adivce for this project.

    I finally got to the table and 6 chairs last week. The previous varnish was water based so I decided rightly? to stick with water based for this project. I gave the table top a solid sand and just rubbed the remaining surfaces with sand pads to get a good key. I used my Titan 16 liter 5 star hoover to not only suck up the dust but to blow any othe bits of dust that may have collected in tight spots.

    I did pour water over the table to show client the oiled look but their heart was set on walnut so I gave them what they wanted. The photo I have included was taking during 1st coat, I two coated the whole job, with a light pad inbetween coats. Stayed within my max 2.5 day budget incl prep. Everyone was happy. Even threw a quick one coat on the decking bench for free.

    If I was to be treating wood outdoor from scratch/new I would certainly be oiling it up, maybe even with a stain slurry. Way too many edges with chairs to be trying to bring previously treated wood back to bare for oiling.

    Thanks again all.

    scrtab.png
     
    koolpc and WillyEckerslike like this.

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