Taking the Heat out of an argument about N.I.

[Deleted member 11267]

So, let's get this right,, Some MP (who shall remain anonymous) told you something ,,, and you believed him/her

The ex mp he listens to is a europhile he also wanted to send troops into yugoslavia and was chair of the left wing fabian society.

 

[longboat]

Meet Glib and Glibber. (Fillet et JJ)

For your amusement, my wife works for such a test house - which has recently been taken over by a French company so that they can effectively 'pinch' UK business post-Brexit.

So your previous post:

If is has CE on it, then yes. If it's fake, then report it.

And, yes, I know that we currently meet all EU regs for items we trade with - d'uh. Bludy loss of Sovereignty them telling US how to conform...

Won't it be GREAT to have our SOVEREIGNTY back after we leave?! No-one telling us what standards we need to conform to!

Unless, of course, we wish to trade with them as we obviously will with our biggest market, the EU. So we'll have to ensure we conform.

DAMN! Our 'Sovereignty' didn't last long...


My understanding is, if we actually properly 'leave' and break our Single Market and Customs Union ties with the EU (ie, a 'Hard' one), then we'd need to demonstrate that all our products - once again - meet the EU's agreed standards before we can sell to them.

Test houses in the UK will be busy. Actually, they won't be able to cope. So what I mean is, test houses across the EU will be busy - testing our products at our expense.

Are you sure you know what you want?

Is rather silly, isn't it?
I do hope you agree.

 

[fillyboy]

So your previous post:

Is rather silly, isn't it?
I do hope you agree.

It's beyond silly longs, way beyond silly.

 

[Heat]

I am back to challenge you again, Allsorts.
I agree my last posts within posts were beginning to get too long, so I will break up your replies.

I had said, - ["I am also asking how the peace is supposed to be under threat from Brexit, given the fact that the division has already been going on BEFORE the Brexit vote?"]

Your answer Allsorts was, -

“I am utterly gob-smacked that you - a person who lives in NI and who has presumably seen the effects of the 'Troubles' - can ask such a question. The 'Irish border' question has been one of the largest topics of discussion in the (quality) media over the past month or so. And yet you profess ignorance of the 'concern'? Jesus Christ.”

Allsorts please read my words again (at top of this post).
I asked how peace is supposedly under threat from Brexit. (You did not answer that.)
On none of my wording did I say I was unaware of the “Irish border (EU) question” or the fact it is in the media.
I did NOT profess “ignorance of the concern”, but rather I have concern about the ignorance. That is, the ignorance of any MP who says the peace is threatened, (that is if they really believe that of course).

Anyhow, back to my question, -
How is the peace in NI under threat from Brexit? (Also - Who would be involved in violence?)

 

[longboat]

It's beyond silly longs, way beyond silly.

'Deranged' is, without a doubt, more appropriate if applied to what someone looking in for the first time would conclude upon witnessing such drivel, I'd like to think that given his track record of saying 'anything' that fits his agenda (whilst knowing it to be untrue) can simply be regarded as silly.
But then on the other hand, it's quite clearly dangerous silliness, because some dim witted individuals will believe it.

Say something, anything, it doest matter one 'jot' how silly it is.
Plenty will, non the less believe it.

When is the, Labour party conference due to start?

 

[joinerjohn1]

When is the, Labour party conference due to start?

Reminds me of years ago when me and some mates went to Blackpool for the weekend. Thought we’d try the Winter Gardens as there’s usually some music or comedians on. Got there to find the Labour Party Conference on. ( at least I was right about the comedians)

 

[joinerjohn1]

 

[joinerjohn1]

MS I just know you’re going to be gone tomorrow, but I’m in stitches here. The missus thinks I’m mad, but I do find your posts extremely amusing. Keep up the good work, but don’t forget to set your alarm clock for 5am in the morning. Those shelf’s at Sainsburys are not gonna fill themselves.

 

[longboat]

Reminds me of years ago when me and some mates went to Blackpool for the weekend. Thought we’d try the Winter Gardens as there’s usually some music or comedians on. Got there to find the Labour Party Conference on. ( at least I was right about the comedians)

That's tragic.

 

[joinerjohn1]

That's tragic.

Yep, went from there to the Manchester pub on the Promenade. Great night.

 

[Allsorts]

The ex mp he listens to is a europhile he also wanted to send troops into yugoslavia and was chair of the left wing fabian society.

Highly commended, then?

 

[Heat]

Sorry Allsorts, but I just have to repost your reply to what was my next statement,

I had said
["....And I still see no threat to the peace other than the usual dissident republicans" ]

Allsorts replied, -

That's the only threat you see - the diss' Republicans. My gawd, you are so 'stuck'. All you had to do was to end that sentence with "...other than the usual dissidents." and I'd have some agreement with you to some point. But, no - in your mind it's only the Republicans! Sadly, in either case, these 'usual dissidents' - on both sides - are chomping at the bit for an excuse to get stuck in again. That's from bothsides, you understand?

Absolute nonsense Allsorts!
I have to say you have made a right mess of that!

Here are a few basic facts for you Allsorts, -

Dissident republicans are the ONLY dissident groups to exist in NI.
NO opposing similar groups exist.
Groups or individuals with access to weapons are not all to be confused with the label Dissident.
Dissident (Republicans) have carried out terrorist murderers and attempted murders and bombings both before and after Brexit. (Without retaliation from any other group I must add, - which probably tells you something?).
Dissident threat is currently a high risk. (Local information)

Therefore my statement saying I see no threat to peace other than the Republican Dissidents, is the truth and I believe all sides would say the same.
If I had have only used the word, ‘Dissidents’, surely that would be misleading to a reader with little knowledge?
The media in Northern Ireland generally use the full term ‘Dissident Republicans’.
Terrorist threat is just from that side.

 

[Allsorts]

So your previous post:

Is rather silly, isn't it?
I do hope you agree.

Britain shouts 'loss of Sovereignty' and wants Brexit.

It might get Brexit, but then has to lose part of its Sovereignty before it can trade again.

Yes, it's very silly - I do agree.

 

[Allsorts]

I am back to challenge you again, Allsorts.
I agree my last posts within posts were beginning to get too long, so I will break up your replies.

I had said, - ["I am also asking how the peace is supposed to be under threat from Brexit, given the fact that the division has already been going on BEFORE the Brexit vote?"]

Your answer Allsorts was, -

“I am utterly gob-smacked that you - a person who lives in NI and who has presumably seen the effects of the 'Troubles' - can ask such a question. The 'Irish border' question has been one of the largest topics of discussion in the (quality) media over the past month or so. And yet you profess ignorance of the 'concern'? Jesus Christ.”

Allsorts please read my words again (at top of this post).
I asked how peace is supposedly under threat from Brexit. (You did not answer that.)
On none of my wording did I say I was unaware of the “Irish border (EU) question” or the fact it is in the media.
I did NOT profess “ignorance of the concern”, but rather I have concern about the ignorance. That is, the ignorance of any MP who says the peace is threatened, (that is if they really believe that of course).

Anyhow, back to my question, -
How is the peace in NI under threat from Brexit? (Also - Who would be involved in violence?)

Are you testing me, or are you not keeping up with the news?

The history of the Irish border is one riddled with challenge, security risks and patrols. Not forgetting smuggling and drive-by shootings.

The removal of border controls has allowed the numerous cross-points along that border to achieve near normality. Communities on both sides are free to virtually ignore that borderline, and live unaffected lives.

If NI will no longer be in the EU, then clearly something is going to have to change. That carries a genuine risk to peace and security.

You know this. You've heard this. This comes as no surprise to you. If you need confirmation, read the link I posted.

Who will be involved in this violence? I'd imagine that the groups most itching to get back to where they were before would be Republican paramilitaries. But certainly not exclusively.

Do you have a solution that has seemingly defeated those in charge of the Brexit negotiations?

 

[Allsorts]

'Deranged' is, without a doubt, more appropriate if applied to what someone looking in for the first time would conclude upon witnessing such drivel, I'd like to think that given his track record of saying 'anything' that fits his agenda (whilst knowing it to be untrue) can simply be regarded as silly.
But then on the other hand, it's quite clearly dangerous silliness, because some dim witted individuals will believe it.

Say something, anything, it doest matter one 'jot' how silly it is.
Plenty will, non the less believe it.

When is the, Labour party conference due to start?

I think you badly need to grow up, Longs.

Clearly you have little of substance to say.

 

[joinerjohn1]

Britain shouts 'loss of Sovereignty' and wants Brexit. It might get Brexit, but then has to lose part of its Sovereignty before it can trade again.

DA, you’re getting Sovereignty mixed up with respect for other countries and their laws / customs. If you go to Thailand on holiday, do you obey local laws or obey British laws? If you went there and broke their laws, you wouldn’t expect to be tried under British laws would you ?
Just because Britain manufactures things for other countries and produces them to the standards expected by the customer there, no loss of Sovereignty can surely be implied ?

 

[Allsorts]

So, let's get this right,, Some MP (who shall remain anonymous) told you something ,,, and you believed him/her ?

Yet two years ago, you were blaming the referendum results on people listening to,,,,, (wait for it),,,,,,,,, MP's

In your mind such a flip little comment probably felt 'mega'.

 

[joinerjohn1]

In your mind such a flip little comment probably felt 'mega'.

Not at all DA, just pointing out what you wrote there.

 

[Allsorts]

Sorry Allsorts, but I just have to repost your reply to what was my next statement,

I had said
["....And I still see no threat to the peace other than the usual dissident republicans" ]

Allsorts replied, -

That's the only threat you see - the diss' Republicans. My gawd, you are so 'stuck'. All you had to do was to end that sentence with "...other than the usual dissidents." and I'd have some agreement with you to some point. But, no - in your mind it's only the Republicans! Sadly, in either case, these 'usual dissidents' - on both sides - are chomping at the bit for an excuse to get stuck in again. That's from bothsides, you understand?

Absolute nonsense Allsorts!
I have to say you have made a right mess of that!

Here are a few basic facts for you Allsorts, -

Dissident republicans are the ONLY dissident groups to exist in NI.
NO opposing similar groups exist.
Groups or individuals with access to weapons are not all to be confused with the label Dissident.
Dissident (Republicans) have carried out terrorist murderers and attempted murders and bombings both before and after Brexit. (Without retaliation from any other group I must add, - which probably tells you something?).
Dissident threat is currently a high risk. (Local information)

Therefore my statement saying I see no threat to peace other than the Republican Dissidents, is the truth and I believe all sides would say the same.
If I had have only used the word, ‘Dissidents’, surely that would be misleading to a reader with little knowledge?
The media in Northern Ireland generally use the full term ‘Dissident Republicans’.
Terrorist threat is just from that side.

Semantics, Heat.

So 'Dissident' essentially means "person who opposes official policy, especially that of an authoritarian state". Only those on the Republican side are opposing official policy? The paras and terrorists on the Loyalist side are - what? - following official policy?

Have you read The Shankhill Butchers? What are they?

Use whatever term you want, Heat, but there are terrorists on both sides. One side has an arguably legitimate motive, and can claim to be fighting a 'war', however cowardly and repulsive it is in practice.

 

[Allsorts]

DA, you’re getting Sovereignty mixed up with respect for other countries and their laws / customs. If you go to Thailand on holiday, do you obey local laws or obey British laws? If you went there and broke their laws, you wouldn’t expect to be tried under British laws would you ?
Just because Britain manufactures things for other countries and produces them to the standards expected by the customer there, no loss of Sovereignty can surely be implied ?

At the risk of going down a long dark path, dare I ask what particular aspect of our current loss of sovereignty causes you most anguish?