The whole thing needs replacing, mate...

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by bowen192, Mar 12, 2018.

  1. The Teach

    The Teach Well-Known Member

    Yes ;)
  2. Crowsfoot

    Crowsfoot Well-Known Member

    It is a lead lock water fitting. To my knowledge lead piping is still legal for supplying gas it's just this water fitting that's been used that's the problem. It could be jointed to the copper using an approved method.
  3. teabreak

    teabreak Well-Known Member

    Pulling 100 year old lead around to open a cup and make a blown joint. I don't rate anyones chances!:D
    Gas lead is thinner and more lightweight and fragile than water lead too.
  4. bowen192

    bowen192 Member

    It seems that people are more swaying now to the, 'it's too difficult and no-one will probably be able to do a good job', which is frustrating.

    Found this in BS 6891:2005 (I know this has been updated so I would be interested if this has changed in a more recent version):

    "8.3.3 Connecting lead composition pipes When lead composition pipes are encountered and any connection joint has to be made, then only a soldered cup joint onto copper pipe or a suitable brass union fitting shall be made. Compression fittings designed for jointing water weight lead pipework shall not be used. COMMENTARY AND RECOMMENDATIONS ON 8.3.3 It is essential that care be taken when soldering a joint onto lead composition pipework as blow lamps might provide too much heat at the joint. Lead solder should be used for this purpose. It is essential that joints be mechanically strong and gas tight."

    Funnily enough when the gas board came out the last thing the fella said as he left was, "Don't let someone quote you £400 for ripping out everything because they can't work with lead...".
  5. Crowsfoot

    Crowsfoot Well-Known Member

    I think you will need an older plumber who is still gas registered for this job.
    Wiping in a flange (cup) joint will then be no problem (it's sad that younger generations are not learning this skill anymore).
    A sign of the times maybe that a lot of the tradesman who have the skills to do this work have given up on the gas work due to the constant cost of keeping up with all the gas safe training and the gas safes who have aren't willing or cannot do this simple skill!
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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  6. teabreak

    teabreak Well-Known Member

    It was done with a meth mouth blowlamp and tinmans solder because of thr heat control needed.
  7. KIAB

    KIAB Well-Known Member

    Showing your age now,very few young peeps can do sweating in lead today, a lost art,job for the oldies.:)
    Agree with Crowsfoot, it's sad that younger generations are not learning this skill anymore, but how often would they use it, they rather take easy route & rip out the lead & fit copper.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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  8. Perhaps they look at the damage caused by lead - making older folk vote B***** for example - and decide ripping it all out is best?

    hides under table
  9. You mentioned that you smelt gas? You called a guy out and he condemned the system due to that fitting?

    Is there any suggestion that that actual fitting is the one that's actually leaking?

    If it definitely is the fitting responsible, then by all means try and locate a gassafe of the 'old school'; go to you local plumbers merchants and building supplies and ask for an 'old timer'...

    It must be frustrating to have to replace all that pipe at a cost of £400 when - from what you say - it may all need redoing again pretty soon. So good chance a capable plumber will be able to perform a 'proper' join there for a lot less than £400, and if that tides your over then all good.

    But it would have had to have been THAT joint that was leaking in the first place.
    bowen192 likes this.
  10. The Teach

    The Teach Well-Known Member

    The whole thing needs replacing, mate...

    Its all about managing 'risk' the person carrying out 'gas work' has to ensure materials are 'suitable' to ensure best practice as he will have to issue paperwork saying his work is safe.BC can ask for this before issuing a final sign of certificate.

    #7 mentions a loft conversion is in progress why not mention loft conversion in the first post, it has significance and raises more questions but your installer has seen the property. If your in any doubt call in a different gas installer and ask them :).
    Yes have the newer BS and other legal supporting documentation,cost to me around £300 it will be cheaper for you to have the lead gas pipe removed ;)

  11. Stan Lee Blade

    Stan Lee Blade Active Member

    Did they actually say that this joint was leaking ( and the cause of the smell of leaking gas )
    Otherwise you could be wasting money having this joint replaced and still have a gas leak.

    As others have said you will have a problem these days, finding someone with the skills required to work with lead pipe, easier to condemn and charge £400 to replace with copper :( sad but true
  12. rogerk101

    rogerk101 Well-Known Member

    Since it's all going to be ripped and replaced in the near future, could you not just do a cheap temporary job of it even if it's ugly just to get reconnected. I've frequently run temporary water pipes and electrical wires just to keep various parts of houses habitable and useable while the real works are going on. Taking a gas pipe up through the loft only to come back down again to feed ground floor gas fire and boiler doesn't make sense to me. Besides it'll probably get in the way of your loft conversion. Rather run a temporary copper pipe from the meter to the boiler, and forget about the gas fire for now (they don't give off any value-for-money heat anyway) and do the real definitive pipe run as part of the loft conversion.
  13. Stan Lee Blade

    Stan Lee Blade Active Member

    Will we be saying this about copper in 20 years time
    “ they would rather take the easy route & rip it all out and fit plastic push fit “:(
  14. teabreak

    teabreak Well-Known Member

    Bring back iron pipe you really had to go some to put a nail through that! Best work out ever threading 3/4 pipe on the floor with a pair of twelves and ratchet stocks!
  15. Crowsfoot

    Crowsfoot Well-Known Member

    I doubt if it was the fitting it could be that the poster detected an unusual odour and called them out thinking it was a gas leak and that was the start of their problem!
  16. Crowsfoot

    Crowsfoot Well-Known Member

    That's what it's really all about and always will be.
    You have to pay to the piper and in this case it's the gas safe organisation that's calling the tune.
  17. Mr John Melvin

    Mr John Melvin Active Member

    Hi Tea Break

    Nice to see an older Chap in here.
    Yes iron pipe nails just bent out the way, screwing 3 o 4 inch was a pain.
    2 of you jumping on the stocks handle
    All old houses then had lead input water pipes.
    Cut it wipe on a new stopcock and away you go with copper.
    It just seemed normal.
    When I was an apprentice plumber I was taught if after the old stop cock was cut off the
    outside stop cock may still leaked.
    I was taught to stuff the pipe with bread " it must be brown I was told " or tap a nail into the
    lead pipe lower down and let it drain there.
    Then Water on blow out the bread or Dress the hole that had been made till it stopped leaking.
    As did checking gas pipes with a match. God H&S would go crazy now.
    Nice to hear about 18" stilsons and footprints.
    I am sure I could still wipe a joint. I think my old blowlamp is around some place.

    Age now 84y so it was another time.

    Have a nice day
    Johnny M
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  18. Crowsfoot

    Crowsfoot Well-Known Member

    I wonder if todays generation will ever one day look back in and think ah when we had gas-safe that was the day:)!
    teabreak likes this.
  19. teabreak

    teabreak Well-Known Member

  20. Stan Lee Blade

    Stan Lee Blade Active Member

    Seen that method used many times, especially around leaky dry taps on gas cookers. The cure being to take it apart and apply graphite grease. The nose was often a far better leak detector than soap and water, with Coal gas having an unmistakable odour.

    I understand that natural gas is odourless and an artificial odour is added.
    KIAB likes this.

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