Thoughts on Bo's comments?

Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by Allsorts, Aug 8, 2018 at 9:27 AM.

  1. Allsorts

    Allsorts Active Member

    Regardless of whether he was trying to promote a legitimate discussion, why did Boris use these particular, well-worn and unfunny words?
     
  2. chippie244

    chippie244 Well-Known Member

    Beacause he is an unscupulous git?
     
    Allsorts likes this.
  3. Beeero

    Beeero New Member

    He wasn’t lying
     
    blarblarblarblar likes this.
  4. He could, arguably should, have used more carefully chosen words given his position, but I don't have an issue with what he said. Women dressed in a Burka look ridiculous. Here is what a well known (Muslim) wrote on the subject (Burka) which I agree with 100%:

    "This is the uniform of medieval patriarchal tyranny. It victim-blames women for their beauty. Where this is enforced it symbolises violent misogyny. I’m not advocating banning this monstrosity but I refuse to defend it. It deserves to be ridiculed. Not the women inside it.

    Women defending this have Stockholm syndrome. Liberals defending this are akin to conservatives defending the confederate flag. It is not racist to challenge religion (which is an idea, not a race). It is our civic duty. It is not offensive to remind everyone that this isn’t normal. It is offensive to advocate for this to become normalised."
     
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  5. Lanc

    Lanc Active Member

    Quite simple really, Boris has to keep up his own 'profile' in order that the public don't forget/ignore him - then he still has the chance (in his mind) of becoming PM. OMG.
     
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  6. Allsorts

    Allsorts Active Member

    Credit to Dominic Grieve who said he'd leave the Tory party if Bo ever became PM.

    And no surprise at all that the Farage has slithered on to the air waves to suggest that Westminster might not like the way Bo talks, but the public do.

    Ah, the dizzy days of populism. Where will it ever end... :rolleyes:
     
  7. Allsorts

    Allsorts Active Member

    Come on, Beeero - don't be coy...

    By the way, I did ask about Bo's choice of words, not the actual issue. Why don;t you start a thread on the actual issue - should the Burkha be banned, or summat?
     
  8. Allsorts

    Allsorts Active Member

    I agree with much you say, BS - well, the stuff you've 'pinched' anyway :). Not so sure about your tentative "arguably should have used more carefully chosen words...". Bo' - like Farage, and Robinson et al - knows exactly what he is saying, and why and decided on these words with care (ruffle feathers, raise profile, but ultimately hopefully to get away with it).

    I think chavs with their trousers around their knees and caps on back-to-front looks ridiculous too (sorry if I've caused you offence).

    So, what would you propose?
     
  9. Allsorts

    Allsorts Active Member

    I reckon you hit t'nail on t'head.
     
  10. Allsorts

    Allsorts Active Member

    I've told this story before, but hey I have a limited pool.

    A couple of years ago we went on hols down to Cornwall and stayed at a complex of self-catering apartments. As we were unpacking from the car, a stealthy, lowered, sleek black BMW swooshed in to the car park and pulled up nearby - with the gentlest of squeals from the dual-pot Brembos.

    Out stepped the sharpest, coolest-looking Asian cove I'd seen in some years; young, fine-cut suit, shades, designer stubble; I wasn't at all envious. From the back of the car popped two of the most gorgeous little kids and from the front passenger seat stepped a top-to-toe Burkha clad woman. I bet she was gorgeous too, but alas I'll never know.

    It was utterly bizarre. This guy was young, trendy, apparently fully 'westernised', seemingly quite affluent (even tho' they chose to stay at a cheap location...). They were our direct neighbs and seemed pleasant and friendly - always a smile of acknowledgement. But, what the...?! They even used the outdoor pool - she on a lounger fully clad in a different coloured Burk.

    Hellish.

    But, presumably, her choice.

    Educate educate educate. We will get there. As long as the populists don't stir things up too much beforehand.
     
    gadget man and DIY womble like this.
  11. HappyHacker

    HappyHacker Member

    A lot of the people calling for an apology are trying to scupper his future political prospects.

    Even some Islamic countries ban them and they have been used by men as a disguise during robberies, try walking into to bank wearing a full face motor cycle helmet! Many European countries have banned them. Here B.J. gets criticised by the usual suspects for passing comment about them.

    I completely agree with his comments and more importantly: his right to express an opinion. He was not insulting the people wearing them just saying that he thought they looked like a pillar box.

    From a different perspective we, as human beings ,well most of us anyway, have evolved to use peoples facial expressions as part of our communication process. Not being able to see a persons face while communicating makes communication more difficult as many of us have found out on telephone conversations and the interweb.
     
  12. Allsorts

    Allsorts Active Member

    "HappyHacker, post: 1626545, member: 182112"]A lot of the people calling for an apology are trying to scupper his future political prospects.You'll have evidence to back this up? And, even if it's true (and it probably is...) this is only a counter to what Bo' is trying to do for himself. Good for gooses and ganders.

    Would you like Bo' as PM? Or is Mogg more your style?


    Even some Islamic countries ban them and they have been used by men as a disguise during robberies, try walking into t bank wearing a full face motor cycle helmet! Absolutely - ban them from banks. Many European countries have banned them. Many? List them. Here ** gets criticised by the usual suspects for passing comment about them. Can you read? I asked about his choice of words.

    I completely agree with his comments and more importantly: his right to express an opinion. He was not insulting the people wearing them just saying that he thought they looked like a pillar box. That is surely an oxymoron or summat?

    From a different perspective we, as human beings ,well most of us anyway, have evolved to use peoples facial expressions as part of our communication process. Not being able to see a persons face while communicating makes communication more difficult as many of us have found out on telephone conversations and the interweb. Yes - but who is actually losing out in the interaction between a Burkha-clad woman and everyone else? But fair play to you for clearly wishing to personally engage with 'them' and being prevented only by their choice of clothing...

    Who are you, anyway? You seem familiar.
     
  13. BoJo should have been more focused in his criticism, of the religion/culture, rather than on the people - it is a dress forced upon women by a medieval patriarchal tyranny (some would argue its part of the religion, that is debatable, if its not religion then its culture), and that this must not become the norm. He should have clearly stated that in this country and culture, individuals are free to wear what they want.
     
  14. fillyboy

    fillyboy Well-Known Member

    How do you know she smiled at you?
     
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  15. Allsorts

    Allsorts Active Member

    I saw the Burkha move and just assumed she could only be smiling at me. A strange tongue-out smile... :oops:

    I mean the guy - he seemed 'normal' and so were the kids, really lovely and well behaved.

    But it was uncomfortable seeing that poor woman fully covered up like that on a holiday, however much she might protest it's her choice (obviously I don't know in this case). Also obviously careful to avoid eye contact - however much I leered.

    I cannot presume, but it did 'seem' like a young successful man with his 'possessions'.

    It's hellish, and it will disappear in time - provided we keep demonstrating our tolerance and acceptance and that - in GREAT Britain - every individual has a choice.

    But once we start (oh blugger - we already have) getting a bunch of jingoistic thugs shouting that it's wrong (as if they actually care about the individual involved), then what can you expect the 'Muslim community' to do but batten down t'hatches?
     
  16. Bob Rathbone

    Bob Rathbone Well-Known Member

    Covering the face is not a universal requirement of Islam. Look at the TV pictures of various Islamic countries and you will see a variation from full face cover, through a head scarf, to no covering at all. It appears to be a local interpretation of the rules depending on how strict the Clerics are. In the UK motorcyclists are refused entry to shops and petrol stations if they cover their face with a crash helmet, remove the helmet before entering the shop is the general rule. Covering the face with a visor, balaclava or other items is seen as covert, an attempt to hide one's identity for whatever reason. We have a culture of looking at the person we speak to, it allows us to make more than just verbal communication. Covering one's facial features is a barrier to this extra communication channel.
     
    Allsorts likes this.
  17. Allsorts

    Allsorts Active Member

    Absolutely - covering your face is often a security risk, and definitely reduces communication and interaction.

    There is no way on this planet I would accept a teacher in 'my' school who wore a Burkha, for example.

    But, who are we to tell other people how to dress other than that? We just need to promote the value of freedom to do as you wish, and support anyone who does feel oppressed and wishes to distance themselves from this.

    We do this best by always demonstrating our tolerance and acceptance. We get it wrong if we shout insults.

    There are girls from devout Muslim families who go to school in Burkhas - but carry 'Western' clothing in their bags. In to the loos, swap clothes, a bit of make-up - and they are ready to feel free until the end of the day. What will these girls do when they leave home? Become free British citizens.
     
  18. Beeero

    Beeero New Member

    He said wearers of the veil "look like letterboxes" and resemble "a bank robber", adding that the garment was "absolutely ridiculous".

    I said he was not lying, no need to ban it quite frankly I couldn’t care less what anyone chooses to ware
     
  19. I take issue with this statement, yes people should be free to wear what they like but this dress code is not worn out of choice in the vast majority of cases, it is worn because there are severe penalties if they don't.
     
  20. fillyboy

    fillyboy Well-Known Member

    My thoughts on Bo's comments?. Indifference really. It was hardly controversial and certainly not inaccurate.
    In 2013 Ken Clarke described the Burka as a "peculiar costume" and a "kind of bag", Anna Soubry described the burka as a "peculiar concept", nobody batted an eyelid, nor should they.
    All the Tories criticising Bo' and calling for an apology are staunch remainers, that's what this story is about. Take down the main threat to their 'soft brexit'.
    Futile really, it won't work.
     

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