Thoughts on Bo's comments?

Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by Allsorts, Aug 8, 2018.

  1. goldenboy

    goldenboy Well-Known Member

    Johnson is fully entitled to speak his mind.

    The issue is the way in which he has done it.

    The way he has described people is pretty appalling.

    If he was really bothered about the issue he would have tackled it a sensible and adult manner.

    Instead he has simply gone after the Tommy Robinson, EDL etc fans by using such crass and inflammatory terms.

    What is gained by him calling those who choose to wear a burka as looking like bank robbers and ridiculing them.

    Isnt he actually the one criticizing freedom?
     
    Allsorts likes this.
  2. No idea is above scrutiny, no people are beneath dignity.

    Religion is an idea, it has no rights and people should be free to criticise/denounce/insult it as they like. The idea that criticism or (insult) towards a religion should not be allowed is reprehensible.
     
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  3. goldenboy

    goldenboy Well-Known Member

    People are entitled to criticise.

    People are also entitled to expect to be treated with respect.

    Presumably if you believe in the absolute right to say whatever you want without any form of restriction then Abu Hamza and Anjem Choudary should be allowed to say what they want unrestricted by imprisonment?
     
    Allsorts likes this.
  4. No they're not. How is "respect" defined, what are the limits of what is or is not respectable and who defines those limits? No one has a right not to be offended, in fact the right to offend is embedded within the principle of free speech.

    To an extent, yes. The current laws seem fit for purpose to me - say what you like as long as it doesn't incite violence. It people want to spout their racist/misogynistic/xenophobic hate then let them, and let them suffer the consequences.
     
  5. Heat

    Heat Active Member

    I do not know all of what Boris said, so maybe he could have used different words.
    I do think the bank robber comparison is valid though.
    I do not think he was criticising freedom. Although I believe in freedom of speech and actions, both have their boundaries, as we all will no doubt agree. To speak against any religion, especially Muslim, is a delicate subject but should not be.
     
  6. FTFY ;)
     
    Heat likes this.
  7. goldenboy

    goldenboy Well-Known Member

    I personally just think (and seemingly many others agree) that the starting point for any form of rational conversation is to behave respectfully. Playground insults are what Boris specializes in. His "base" love it.
     
    Allsorts likes this.
  8. Heat

    Heat Active Member

    True, although it has been known to happen in other parts of the world where male or female terrorists wear the burka as disguise to escape the law or for terrorist crimes.
    Remember that not all terrorists are men.
     
  9. goldenboy

    goldenboy Well-Known Member

    But you are arguing against somebody being allowed to criticise Johnson for the manner in which he made.his crass and disrepectful comments.

    Surely you are somewhat flying in the face of your own "free speech is paramount" mantra.
     
  10. Heat

    Heat Active Member

    I actually did dither over whether to say Muslim or Islam. :)
    On a serious point, there seems to be a different approach to what people can say about Christian religions compared to certain others.
    I believe that is because of complaints sure to come from other religions and also the threat of violence
     
    Allsorts likes this.
  11. goldenboy

    goldenboy Well-Known Member

    Thats fine. So for you it is perfectly fine for anyone to walk up to another person in the street and say whatever they want.

    Regardless of what they say. Regardless of who they say it to.

    Without any form of objection from yourself.

    Doubtful.
     
    Allsorts likes this.
  12. Yes, pretty much. People have a right to do this. But they also bear the responsibility of their actions. Too much emphasis these days on rights while forgetting about responsibility.

    You can say anything to anyone, but don't expect to be thanked for it.
     
  13. goldenboy

    goldenboy Well-Known Member

    Johnson can say what he wants.

    Johnson can also expect to be criticised for what he says.

    But it seems his fans only like his free speech to matter.

    If it doesnt matter what anyone says why are his supporters so triggered by others having a pop at him.
     
  14. goldenboy

    goldenboy Well-Known Member

    This is a bizarre position to hold.

    You seem to be down a little bit of a rabbit hole twisting on this.

    Surely the public discomfort with Johnson's crass comments are a result of his right to say what he wants.

    He can say what he wants but must expect a response.

    On the one hand the "base" he was pandering to love it.

    People who disagree with his cartoon pronouncements wont.

    Struggling really to see what exactly it is you are whining about.

    Surely this discussion and many others eleswhere prove that free speech is alive and kicking.
     
  15. Ditto.
     
  16. fillyboy

    fillyboy Well-Known Member

    Nothing.

    What is gained by him refusing to apologise for those innocuous remarks?

    Everything.
     
    longboat likes this.
  17. Actually, I drive a Lexus not some chavvy car.
     
  18. Allsorts

    Allsorts Active Member

    Hmmm, you don't really have the 'right' to say anything you want to anyone, do you? I mean, you shouldn't, should you? Not anything? Not just because you felt like it?
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018 at 4:02 PM
  19. In a public place, yes.
    In a private place, the owner may place restrictions on what is acceptable or expected as in the workplace.
     
  20. Allsorts

    Allsorts Active Member

    Lol!

    I've just been reading the last couple of pages and can't believe Bloomin' and Golden are arguing over what must be the closest point of agreement ever seen on this forum, eva'.

    Phew.

    No subject should be beyond criticism, especially if it's deserving of it - and, let's face it, religious belief almost always is.

    That was not Boris' main aim, tho'. He deliberately targeted, in the most childish and pretty crass way, those who are already the victims of repressive religions.

    He knew who his audience was - at least those he hoped to target - but he should also have realised that this audience is not the most sophisticated, and his words carried a genuine risk of harm and further isolation to the already repressed.

    (Bearing in mind, of course, many Burkha-clad women are probably very 'happy' with their lot and would possible feel vulnerable and less valued without it; it is literally their security blanket. It's their form of, I dunno, 'Goth' blacking of hair and make-up? Tattoos? Nose rings? Acceptance by a group?)

    But, criticise the religion for all its delusion and negativity and bigotry and repression. Don't cheaply insult those who are already the victims - for your own personal gain.

    Bo' has the mind of a slug.
     

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