To tank or not to tank?

Discussion in 'Tilers' Talk' started by Dyke Pullover, Mar 4, 2009.

  1. GKU

    GKU New Member

    "Tanking will only protect the wall from any possible water damage. "

    Thats what the original conversation was all about ;)
     
  2. wise uncle

    wise uncle New Member

  3. Dyke Pullover

    Dyke Pullover New Member

    Sorry GKU but I have used bal waterproof adhesive and grout Waterproof not Water resistant.
     
  4. GKU

    GKU New Member

    Thats adhesive not grout !!!
     
  5. wise uncle

    wise uncle New Member

  6. Dyke Pullover

    Dyke Pullover New Member

    Jesus thats cheap compared to bal! about £30 for adhesive and £40 for grout! Mind you the bal stuff I have used is suitable for swimming pools, would that be classed as waterproof?
     
  7. imran_

    imran_ New Member

    First, almost all grouts are NOT waterproof - they are water resistant and with a power shower there is a possibility of the water soaking through the grout. If plasterboard is behind it will swell with a small amont of water and your tiles will fall off.

    Basically, anything that comes in a pot - and all grouts that are non-epoxy based - work on dispersion of (usually) water. Hence they cannot be waterproof. Including BAL adhesives. Most tiles are also NOT waterproof but have low porosity - also important when choosing tiles (e.g. for outside).

    In reality a power shower CAN penetrate through grout and so tanking/aquapanel is very important. For a gravity fed shower there isn't as much water and it won't hit the grout with the same force so is v unlikely to penetrate.
     
  8. Dyke Pullover

    Dyke Pullover New Member

    So power shower grout is not waterproof even though it says it is! And suitable for total immersion like a swimming pool it isnt. Well I never Imran you really are the expert that just throws all the guarantees and rules out of the window. No dont tell me you a master oh and a glazier, well thats ok then.
     
  9. GKU

    GKU New Member

    <u>imran</u> ,well put , thank you sir . Waterproof adhesive and grout does <u>not</u> mean that it does'nt let water through , it means that it does'nt degrade with the ingress of water !!!!
     
  10. wise uncle

    wise uncle New Member

    Unibond state: waterproof, and for power showers.
    I agree the tile has to be considered. As tiles are becoming a more decorative feature, porous tiles are on the market that are not being sealed by some tilers or diyers. This is when i agree that tanking is needed.

    But a glazed ceramic tile with waterproof adhesive & grout, siliconed in all internal corners should have no problems.
     
  11. imran_

    imran_ New Member

    As you wish.... BAL specify their cementitous adhesives and grouts as water-resistant and specify tanking when used with power showers. Unlike Unibond, BAL provide data sheets in great detail and classify their products in accordance with EN12004.

    Ignore at your peril, but I'm guessing Unibond don't offer a 25 year guarantee with their product.

    Next you'll be telling me bricks are waterproof!
     
  12. Dyke Pullover

    Dyke Pullover New Member

    Well actually my 1st job within the construction industry was actually for a brick factor. So actually there are bricks that have a extremely high engineering quality which significantly reduces the quantity of water in. However the weak point with brick work is the mortar. Would you like me to continue. Baggeridge brick and Redland where the main suppliers of this type of brick. But it was down to the quality of workmanship that was most important!
     
  13. imran_

    imran_ New Member

    Well done Loz, you've now answered your own question.

    Unibond sell "waterproof grout" that is suitable for swimming pools and "waterproof grout" that is not - because it isn't waterproof.

    What you NEED is a data sheet, not what marketing decide to call it. Then you will know what it is made of, how it provide the adhesion and e.g. whether priming/tanking is necessary.

    As for being a tiling expert, yes thanks my tiling is great. Good tools, good addys and a lot of preparation. Can't go wrong!
     
  14. Dyke Pullover

    Dyke Pullover New Member

    About the bricks, and yes Data sheets are available for BAL to,dont you read them?
     
  15. wise uncle

    wise uncle New Member

    I think tanking is a carp tilers excuse to get someone else to waterproof the wall. This way they can buy the cheap £6 tub of adhesive from there local shed. & get out of any guarantees.
    I've been tiling for over 15 years, I also use other tilers when i haven't time for the job. And he's been tiling for over 25 years. He always gives 5 year guarantees on his work, but has never asked for tanking.
     
  16. Captain Leaky

    Captain Leaky New Member

    I always tank a power shower area and use professional adhesives and grout(BAL) if the wall is plasterboard.

    Yes, they tiling will probably survive if it is not tanked, but an awful lot do not.. which keeps us all in business. ;)

    Of course if you use aquapanel or similar there is no need to tank.
     
  17. Captain Leaky

    Captain Leaky New Member

    ..and looking at your original post where the question was from a DIY tiler then definitely tank as there is every chance their tiling will not be up to scratch.
     
  18. GKU

    GKU New Member

    Don't waste your breath (or typing fingers) Captain , "there is none so blind as those that WILL NOT see" ;)
     
  19. GKU

    GKU New Member

    <u>Loz / wise uncle</u> , this is taken from another Tilers forum -

    "Waterproof" when used to describe grout means that it will not be damaged or deteriorate when in contact with water. It does not mean that is provides a watertight barrier to the passage of water.

    In general use the amount of water absorbed by the grout will have evaporated by th etime the shower is used again. This is generally OK for domestic use but for commercial showers of if you have a large proportion of grout (such as with mosaics) it is preferable to use a tanking system as the larger amount of water entering the grout may not have time to dry out and can enter the substrate.

    Same applies to the likes of Aquapanel which will resist the affects of water but it is not a barrier to water.

    You can get different specs of grout that are more suitabl efor power showers such as BAL Superflex or Mapei Ultracolour that has a built in water repellant but they will both still allow water through over a prolonged time in contact with water.

    Jason

    Perhaps that explanation will make it clearer to you both ;)
     
  20. Dyke Pullover

    Dyke Pullover New Member

    Swimming pool? shall we think about it my dear friend GKU?
     

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