Toms top tips from than award :-)

I don't have to visit a library, Dick. I can access all the BSs etc on-line from my office. I'd recommend the system to you, but since Dick Puller Enterprises Ltd. can't afford a proper test pump, I think the licence fee would be probably be beyond your limited resources.

The only reason we've had this stupid argument is that you incompetent bodgers think it is alright to bodge together something from old car tyres. Why would anyone do that if they had the proper test kit in the first place?
 
from my office. I'd recommend the system to you, but since Dick Puller Enterprises Ltd..............Puller Plumbing International Inc, try to keep up son!!!
 
"copper at normal temperatures will not explode and fragment sending shards of material in all directions. Work hardened or not, it is far too ductile."

It starts soft and ductile (annealed); as it is worked it gets harder and more brittle. It cannot be both "work hardened and ductile", the two are opposites. It can and does shatter.

Unless you can be certain that no part of an installation and no joint will fail, then you are playing Russian roulette with other people's lives. If you follow the advice of TomPlum and Puller, be aware that neither of them have ever done a hydraulic pressure test.

A pneumatic test is utterly carp at indicating the presence of a leak, but you'd only know that if you had done hydraulic tests; Plum and Puller haven't.
 
It starts soft and ductile (annealed); as it is worked it gets harder and more brittle. It cannot be both "work hardened and ductile", the two are opposites. It can and does shatter.

Little experiment for you, we've all done it many times.
Take a length of copper pipe and bend it over your knee, keep doing it, bend straighten, bend straighten. You can't get more work hardened than that. Now tell me did it shatter or snap clean off, or did it tear.
 
Little experiment for you;

As above, but connect the copper tube to a 50 litre air reservoir pressurized to 3 bar. This is what you are proposing; you'd be daft to try this, so why are you suggesting other people do it? You probably wouldn't survive.

The difference between our two experiments is that you stop working on the copper tube when it breaks.

Under pressure, the release of the stored pneumatic energy only begins when the tube breaks. The stored pneumatic energy is the equivalent of Tomplum working on a footpump like a hyperactive River Dancing dervish for 20 minutes. It contains a lot of energy and it is released in milliseconds.

You would get hard, brittle metal fragments breaking away from the site of the fracture. The areas adjacent to the break are also hardened; they are distorted by the release of air and more fragments will break free.
 
You would get hard, brittle metal fragments breaking away from the site of the fracture. The areas adjacent to the break are also hardened; they are distorted by the release of air and more fragments will break free.

No you would not, it would deform and rupture and the pressure would be released. It would not fail in the way you describe, you are simply wrong.
 
"No you would not, it would deform and rupture and the
pressure would be released."

Good, you have nothing to worry about then. You're suggesting others do it, off you go and demostrate it.


Carry out the experiment as above and let us know how you get on. Get Tom to video it. Get Puller to assist, he can be focus puller or best boy.
 
It was you who narrowed this argument down specifically to the failure characteristics of copper pipe.
I believe I have shown you that it will not fail as you describe even when work hardened. If you can't accept that it's your problem, I don't care either way.
 
I haven't narrowed it down, I do not have to. A failure of a tube is just one of numerous possible failures modes, all of which I say are potentially dangerous.

You say that pneumatic testing is safe for all possible failure mechanisms; so go and do it, close up. Put up or shut up. What have you got to lose? Are you scared?

You have not shown anything, you have just said the tube failure would not happen as I described.
 
You say that pneumatic testing is safe for all possible failure mechanisms; so go and do it, close up. Put up or shut up. What have you got to lose? Are you scared?

Where have I said that??? What I am saying is that it's not as dangerous as you make out, if it was the hospitals would be full of plumbers.

You have not shown anything, you have just said the tube failure would not happen as I described.

Anyone who has ever bent & therefore work hardened a bit of copper pipe over their knee until it breaks, knows it tears apart. It NEVER shatters or fragments.
You can argue against that simple fact as much as you like, it will still be a fact.
Carry on if you must, I've had enough of you now.
 
"Where have I said that??? What I am saying is that it's not as dangerous as you make out, if it was the
hospitals would be full of plumbers."

So is it unsafe? Is it safe at 3 bar but unsafe at 30 bar? Is it safe at 0.5 bar, contrary to what the CDA say? When can you do a pneumatic pressure test safely?

Face facts; you (and I) have no clue whether it will break, what might break, what might break off and how far or fast any loose bits will travel. That is why you should not do pneumatic pressure tests, if you can avoid it. I can tell you for certain that 3 bar could easily kill you.

The hospitals are not full of plumbers because no-one uses pneumatic pressure tests; there are just 3 clueless clowns on here recommending that people should.

If you insist that it is safe for others to do, then just get on and do it, don't be a spineless coward.
 
My last reply to you :-

Face facts; you (and I) have no clue whether it will break, what might break, what might break off and how far or fast any loose bits will travel.

Wrong, in the case of copper pipe, I know exactly how it would fail and I've told you, You are too much of an idiot to acknowledge the simple truth of it.

The hospitals are not full of plumbers because no-one uses pneumatic pressure tests; there are just 3 clueless clowns on here recommending that people should.

Wrong again, you can buy dry pressure test gauges virtually anywhere. Are you saying that the manufacturers make them and offer them for sale without ever selling any of them. Or that many people buy them and never use them. Again, the ramblings of an idiot.
 
The hospitals are not full of plumbers because no-one uses pneumatic pressure tests; there are just 3 clueless clowns on here recommending that people should.

Wrong again rent boy, it's done by Plumbers day & daily. As for calling us clueless clowns, well, if not sitting in a libarary all day reading mince makes us clueless clowns, well I'm a happy clueless clown.

You have demonstrated your lack of intellect on several points on this thread, keep reading *

[Edited by: admin]
 
Nirdam:
“So will us pipe fitters call our selves tubefitters from now on?”

Please see ‘Copper Tubes in Domestic Heating Systems’ which consistently refers to the material as tubes.

http://www.ukcopperboard.co.uk/literature/pdfs/pub-150-copper-tubes-in-domestic-heating-systems.pdf

So that’s official; Nirdam and Itandje haven’t yet mastered the correct terminology for the material they use. They will be joining Tom and Dick sitting on the site’s stupid step, where they will be trying to grow themselves a brain. In future they will restrict themselves to commenting on those work activities which are within their limited abilities, i.e., broom-driving, tea-making and butty-fetching.
 
Oi! Onetap! "there are just 3 clueless clowns on here recommending that people should..."

Mr Plum ain't no clueless clown.

And the other two aren't always clueless.
 
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