Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by proby, Feb 17, 2017.
Whats your thinking on the latest from Tony Blair about reversing brexit.?
I don't have much respect for TB (who does?) but he has a point. We're stuck between a loony impotent left wing opposition and a right wing Tory Government, TB is saying we need to reclaim the middle ground and debate these issues without ideology - and that I 100% agree on.
Sadly I just don't think this topic is going anyway with TB in the frame.
I ment about him saying we should be allowed to change our minds on Brexit.
My first thought was bemusement.
Wait, what? Who?
Yeah right, are we 45 minutes away from launching article 50 Tony? UKIP has weapons of mass deflation?
I didn't think Brexit was going too badly, but wasn't Blair the middle east peace envoy? How's that going?
Ahhhh... He was speaking to bankers.
At least Tony Blair's little part of the economy will be fine then.
I wonder if he has the same advisers now that he had when he acted on that dodgy information on Iraq.
Of course we should be allowed to change our minds, and if the overall public mind has changed from narrowly being for Brexit to now narrowly being against Brexit, then we should expose that view and ensure the Government follows it.
But how we do that given the referendum has already been held, I have no idea.
I think the debate that TB is trying to stir up is a good one. Debate can only be a good thing, can't it?
It's too embarrassing to agree with him. It's like finding Gary Glitter supports the same football team as you.
The referendum cost about about the same as a week of EU contributions, so it's difficult to argue on cost grounds that there shouldn't be another one.
It also makes sense that people should be allowed a say on what they're voting "for" - the last one was largely just what people were voting against.
No-one ever said (or even is saying) what the alternative to the EU looks like. So we'd need some meat on the "tautology means tautology" bones.
On the other hand it'd cause resentment if there was another referendum. I'd be a little miffed if I'd voted leave and then there was another referendum.
Perhaps we need a referendum on whether there should be another referendum.
Colin Powell coordinating Brexit? Wouldn't that be weird.
Quite a good test for people in the public eye is, would you buy a used car off him?
The man "sexed up" a dossier. I dread to think what he'd get up to in a car. If you do buy it, wipe the seats.
Good point btiw - the referendum was largely a protest vote I think (much like the labour party being a party of protest), a majority voted that they did NOT want to be in the EU. But no ones knew what the alternatives would look like and now this Government is heading towards a hard Brexit and people don't like that either.
They do NOT want to be in the EU, and they do NOT want a hard Brexit. But no ones know what we DO want. And this is the discussion TB is trying to invigorate - what DO we want.
It is utterly tragic that Blair feels he has to step up and say what needs to be said - it shows the mettle of the current opposition.
I suspect peeps on here know where I stand on Blair - I think he was simply one of the best PMs this country has ever had. The U-S on here will shout "Iraq!", and it's true that this is - sadly - his legacy, but that dismisses everything else - Sierra Leone, The Balkans, N Ireland, the rebuilding of our schools and NHS (bringing it closer to matching what the rest of the developed world is contributing as a %-age of the GPD than ever before - we still largely lag behind), bringing 1 million children out of poverty, minimum wage, abolishing Clause 4, giving the B of E control of interest rates, etc etc etc - and for basically make the air smell a darned sight fresher for the better part of two decades.
So, yes, I completely welcome his intervention - it's chust a shame it's needed. And, I'm not sure it'll help - since he is tainted in many (of limited thinking) peoples' views.
(Mind you, the wee bit of his speech that I heard on the news sounded a bit limp - I hope it wasn't representative because he used to be one of the greatest orators of our age.)
Anyhoo - does he have a point in what he's saying? That many of the Brexiters didn't actually know the detail and consequence of what they were voting for? Well, duh - that's a statement of the bleedin' obvious. Should the public have an opportunity to delve a little deeper and discuss this, perhaps even changing their mind over it? Well - duh, not if you are IDS.
Whoever thinks Blair is a slimeball - all you have to do is stand him next to IDS.
Surely someone as tainted as Blair speaking against brexit is a gift to leavers, he was indeed a good orator but so was Hitler, oh brexit and hitler again. I think most people voting leave knew it would have to be a hard brexit our EU friends made that very plain all along. How can you possibly have another referendum, elections bring a poor turnout anyway what would the effect be on future turnouts if this one was turned around, people would just see it as a wast of time voting.
What would happen if another referendum was for remain would there be another one to confirm it. It's been said on here May is just a puppet for Trump wasn't Blair a bigger puppet for Bush, the creators of Daesh
Bush did not create Daesh, that's preposterous.
I actually think its a great idea,quite possibly the best thing for Brexit.
Peeps who voted to leave would never listen to a **** like him & and there's a very good chance that peeps who voted remain would distance themselves from a war criminal like him.
Talk about deluded, "peeps weren't given the right information" coming from him, that has to be the most contridictery statement ever. 100s of thousands of deaths anyone.
When he won his election his winning vote count was 2.4%
Yet he saw that as enough to.
Sign us up to the Lisbon Treaty.
Open the doors to mass immigration.
Start a War.
O and hand over the roll of running the country to Brown.
But now there's a similar margined vote to leave his gravy train, he's up in arm.
The blokes a complete liabity and should shut up.
...But you **** one goat!
Sorry about re-using that parable, but it just illustrates that there's such a thing as a moral event horizon.
Once you pass a moral event horizon, you can't come back.
At least IDS doesn't act on supernatural voices in his head. He gets some credit for that? No?
You must see why people could have legitimate concerns about having another referendum though.
Was there a pre-referendum Brexit manifesto? I can't remember. I'd be interested in taking another look to see how detailed it was (if it existed).
He is a chump.
People voted. Simples
Bush and Blair, Did daesh exist before that illegal War ?
Maybe they did.
But did they really understand the vote?
Neither side set out any idea, but at least remain made sense in keeping the status quo. But what did brexit mean?
We still don't know, months later.
Bush & his puppet Blair are solely responsible.
Bush looking to control oil fields, Blair not having a clue but went along with it any way.
Separate names with a comma.