Tony Blair

Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by proby, Feb 17, 2017.

  1. btiw

    btiw Well-Known Member

    And I agree that protection of assets is important.
    I'm not defending the indefensible.
    We need to learn the lessons of 2008 (or perhaps more precisely the US needs to learn the lessons of 2008).
    No, I can't see us learning those lessons either. It's still a mess. Something else we probably agree on.

    If my insurance company needs to pay out I don't want them scrabbling about to try and sell shares only to find that the FTSE is down that day.
    I want them to go "the FTSE is down but no problem BTIW, we have some gilt edged securities here". That's why I want insurance companies to hold gilts for me.

    Yes, debt is owned by people who own stuff.
    You and I don't have the billions that Soros has so we only own a bit of government debt.
    Wealthy people are people too and I don't begrudge them lending my country money to build stuff.
    Before I was born somebody bought gilts and the government built roads and schools that I got to use. The people who bought those gilts had to have money to lend.

    If I look in my wallet then most of that money was created out of thin air by bankers out of money that DA and koolpc had deposited.
    Which is nice.
    I like money.
    Bankers? Good job. Click "like".
    BUT... We all just hope that DA and koolpc don't both ask for all their deposited money back at the same time, because some of it is in my pocket and it'll end in tears.

    So long as we do the maths properly and evaluate the risk of everyone trying to get their money back then it's great for the economy.
    I mean really great.
    It's when we don't work out the risks then it all goes sideways.

    In summary (and I think everyone on the forum hopes this topic is approaching a summary):
    I think fractional reserve banking is like electricity.
    Dangerous yet incredibly useful.
    We need to handle banking responsibly and carefully because it powers our world.
    We used to be able to do this. I think* we can again.

    * actually it's more of a hope, a belief. A quote from Matt Haig's book The Humans. "History is a branch of mathematics. So is literature. Economics is a branch of religion".
  2. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    I think you're right that we should give folks a break and draw this to a close haha.
    I sort of get where you're coming from but I think in this instance, it's you that's being idealistic! In my view, You're placing far too much faith in a finance system which has shown itself to be corrupt to the core.
    Libor fiddling, money laundering, the creation of highly dubious financial instruments, sub prime lending. On and on the list goes that shows that the financial sector behaves like corporations should. Ie, it puts stockholder premiums above all else. It does what it's supposed to do under corporate law shall we say. And who cares who gets hurt!

    And when illegal activity surfaces....a few lambs get spanked, some paltry fines get handed out and you as usual.
    It's fair to say that I have zero% faith in the financial sector to act in a responsible, ethical and wise way. And we put our entire currency system, our entire economies, into their hands...and pay them handsomely for it. We indebt future generations to them...

    The alternatives are there, there are always alternatives but the game is so stacked that when Blair and Brown hand 'independence' to the BofE, when Johnny Osborne signs off on bailouts and austerity, no-one really does owt. Some hippies may go and sit in a park for a while. The alternatives get thrown around a few radical publications and websites and everyone carries on, hoping things will improve and lessons will be learned. In my view, it's US that needs to learn the lesson, ie don't trust these people!

    But yes, let's put a line under it for now. Last word is yours if you'd like it :)
    btiw likes this.

  3. Start a new thread, it's worth continuing maybe?

    There is 1 other complication that creates more confusion for both sides of the argument.
  4. btiw

    btiw Well-Known Member

    I think this thead is done. It was fun and I think we understand each other's position. I don't need the last word (...but aren't I...? Doh!).

    Besides, I'm not here to provide you amusement whilst PJT knocks lumps out of my arguments.

    I'll just sit back and wait until he tries to justify space exploration as anything other than a complete waste of time and money (bludy trekkies!).
    P J Thompson and longboat like this.
  5. proby

    proby Active Member

    Good now b ugger off and live long and prosper.
    P J Thompson and btiw like this.
  6. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

  7. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    This is Mandelson's admission that he and Blair started multiculturalism to bring in a new wave of Labour voters?
    Where does he say that in those words? Or is the admission in these words?

    Cos those are the only quotes from him in that article?

    Or has Richard Little John put words in his mouth? *

    *(stealing a habit from my doppleganger komrade :) ) This is in no way an endorsement of Mandelson, who is in my humble opinion, a bag of pooh

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