Tony Blair

Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by proby, Feb 17, 2017.

  1. I think EVEN Phil would accept that any slight swing in votes would almost totally be from Leave towards Remain? Surely? I mean, it happened even the day after the vote - the regret. The realisation.

    But, granted, it hasn't been significant as far as I can see.
  2. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    On itv just now there was a poll re: Blairs intervention, it was an outstanding unfavourable vote @over 83%.
  3. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    Tbh, DA, after Blair crawled out of the woodwork and gave his speech, I wasn't sure what to make of it.
    How should I feel about his statement that I didn't know what I was voting for?

    Then, along came IDS and told me how I should feel about it. Tony was wrong, he insults my intelligence, he said.
    So I'll go with that.
    Thanks IDS.!
    Deleted member 33931 likes this.
  4. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    You're 'available', what does that mean?
    On second thoughts forget that, I don't want to know.
  5. proby

    proby Active Member

    I didn't feel insulted at all, when I see Blair now I just feel bile. I did agree with Boris just get up and turn the TV off.
    longboat likes this.
  6. proby

    proby Active Member

  7. That doesn't make any sense.

    If you want to term me as liberal, feel free. It is better than bigot, after all
  8. So a simple question, again, for all those brexit voters.

    What, exactly, did you vote for ?

    Simple reasoned replies will be welcome, and open the eyes of us remain voters to what we missed when voting to remain
  9. proby

    proby Active Member

    So called hard brexit, our friends in the EU made it clear anything else would be remaining but without a say. I Don't need to open your eyes, couldn't do that with a crow bar:)

    SWBUILDERS Active Member

    Ability to control immigration (wether we choose to is another matter)
    Control of laws
    Ending payments to EU as net contributions
    As a protest against the ever closer political union of the EU
    As a protest against the corruption that's rife within the eu (mandelson and burroso/goldmansach)
    As a protest for Working class especially in the construction industry due to substandard cut price labour flooding there market leading to their quality of life being greatly decreased

    All of the above mean no customs union, no single market basically NO EU!!!!
  11. So you didn't vote for anything.

    It was a protest vote against things ? I can understand that, even if I don't agree with it.

    But I suggest that most of those that voted remain did so after evaluating the benefits and the disadvantages. An acceptance that there are both. I also suggest that most that voted brexit could see the disadvantages, but couldn't see any advantages.

    So, that suggests, as Blair said, that side didn't understand what they were voting for.

  12. That wasn't the vote though was it. It was remain or brexit, with no idea of what brexit means.

    We still don't know what brexit means. So you can't have voted for that, even if you wanted to.
  13. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    I love Star Trek. The notion of a united planet where everyone sees themselves as one people is great. In this sense, globalization would be a fantastic thing. Get rid of all the silly straight line borders in Africa, the arbitrary lines on maps that pit people against each other. Am all for it. One people under the Sun.
    However, this isn't what globalization is. Globalization is nothing to do with that. It's to do with the centralization of power, the removal of obstructions to corporate greed. It's the perceived perfection of a system that enables the very few to use the very many to further their own psychopathic greed.
    The EU is a globalist wet dream. The EU and the Troika have been acting in globalist interests from the off. The EU was on the verge of signing off on the Trans Atlantic Trade and Investment Partnership when the referendum happened. TTIP being a massive step along the way toward the globalists obtaining supreme power. Eg, TTIP would give Monsanto the power to sue a nation for loss of earnings should that nation enact a GMO ban. It literally puts the trans national corporations above national governments, above even the EU!
    The EU has been instrumental in the policy of austerity, it has played a massive part in the post 2008 craziness of indebting future generations to pay a corrupt, irresponsible and illogical financial system. This has led to real hardship for many millions already and will continue to do so for decades.
    The EU has put in place a system whereby trawlers still catch fish but have to throw them back in the sea, dead. So they died for literally nothing. The EU has put in place a system whereby it's worth farmers renting land and to do nothing productive with it. Everywhere you look the EU has enacted crazy policies that do nothing for people or the environment.
    Free movement of people is a fantastic thing in theory but in a world of mass inequality all it does is offer those in poor areas a yellow brick road to a perceived land where the streets are paved with gold. It does nothing to help those poor areas and goes a long way toward creating bigotry, resentment, tension and strife.
    On balance, the EU is um, crazy. In my humble opinion.
    I've seen many arguments along the lines of, outside of the EU we are at the mercy of the Tories. Outside of the EU we'll have no human rights. I don't subscribe to this. Yes, Britain's political system is every bit as rotten and crazy as the EU. Yes the Tories will try to sign trade agreements just like TTIP. But, the closer the power is to you, to me, the more chance we have of actually having any power. This is obvious. Representative democracy, safe seats etc is crazy. Why vote for the other party if you live in a safe seat? You're wasting the trip to the booth. Your vote has no power. So what is the sense of being in a block which waters down your 'power' even further? The arrow is pointed the wrong way! Point it back toward you, toward me, not toward distant beurocrats and an even more abstracted form of representative democracy.

    As for Tony Blair, the word C*** was invented for him.
    btiw, Phil the Paver, proby and 2 others like this.
  14. Whilst I don't fully agree with you, and you have missed out any advantages, I do accept you have looked at it, thought about it, and voted how you want your future.

    Happy to see that. We are on opposite sides, but I recognise your thoughts and opinions. Not just a blind vote
    P J Thompson likes this.
  15. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    Well put, sir.
  16. That is exactly the answer I expected.

    One person reckons we should be allowed to discuss this issue further, because it was fed on inaccurate info - and you are 'not sure how to feel about that', and another person - who is a Europhile and a Remainer at heart, but who 'changed his mind' unquestionably for reasons of personal gain, and who then lied repeatedly every time he was asked about the £350M, tells you your intelligence is being insulted - and that gives you a nice warm feeling?

    That is exactly the answer I expected.
    Deleted member 164349 likes this.
  17. Crowsfoot

    Crowsfoot Screwfix Select

    We all should know that the leave vote was really about the last chance to keep Britain British.

    Or at least I hope that it was.
  18. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    That is exactly the answer I expected.

    No way.
    You're kidding, right?
  19. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    The advantages of EU membership that I'm aware of are only advantages because of a naffed up system.
    Tariff free trade across the borders for example. Tariffs are born of a form of protectionism aren't they. They're one nation using a policy of taxing imports to protect it's economy. Well for a start...economic systems are currently insane and anyway, is money the most important thing in life? Should we as a species be placing financial issues so high on our priority list? There is absolutely no real reason why the people of earth couldn't live in a resource based economy. The reasons why we don't are largely down to a combination of vested interest, education, conditioning and fear. The latter three of which are in my opinion created by the first one.
    If we weren't constrained by the need for bits of paper and numbers on computer screens we'd likely have already colonized Mars, cured cancer and definitely solved hunger and famine. We'd likely also not be fighting wars for oil....A system of fiat currency creates artificial scarcity. When the credit crunch happened, was there any less fuel on earth? Any less food? Not at all, the only thing that changed was that there were smaller numbers on computer screens and fewer bits of paper in wallets and purses. This much isn't arguable. It's not even an 'alternative fact', it's just a fact. Money creates scarcity, it creates inequality in order to help the few benefit from the labours and suffering of the many. It's a perfect system if you want control and power. Look at George Soros!
    Ok, there appear to be advantages to having money. I like having money in this system. It means I can eat and have a guitar. But that's only because I live in a money based system. Freedom from across border tariffs is just a sticking plaster on a festering wound. It's not healing the wound.
    Other perceived advantages are things like Human rights protection but the Human rights law didn't come from the EU anyway did it. It's not an EU creation. Being able to go to Spain without a visa is again a sticking plaster. A sticking plaster over a gaping wound that is the aforementioned arbitrary lines on maps....

    What I'm getting at is that EU membership brings advantages only within a naffed up system and actually if you draw focus back, no advantages at all over say, removing the lines on the map and removing a corrupt economic model. Which in my view is what a mature species would do. Rather than allowing this craziness to continue and arguing over sticking plasters.
    SWBUILDERS and Phil the Paver like this.
  20. proby

    proby Active Member

    But that was the vote, we were told all along if you want access to free trade you have to accept free movement and contribute to the eu funds, brexit means brexit (out) or you are still in with no say on anything.
    longboat likes this.

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