Tony Blair

Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by proby, Feb 17, 2017.


    SWBUILDERS Active Member

    Mr Blair may have borrowed a sh** load of money for the NHS and schools that's easy anyone could have done that, the money had to come from somewhere and now it's showing that this was just unsustainable spending and by Chucking money at it he may as well destroyed the NHS.

    he has the blood of thousands of people on his hands, new labour luvvies alienated the entire working class and all of Scotland, created a benift culture and the relaxation of gambling laws that has lead to suffering of many of the uks poorest. Just a few of the great mans best bits!!!
    Sparkielev, longboat and proby like this.
  2. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Remain,, 1 ?
    3 ?

    Nah sorry, I can't see any advantage in remaining.

    Leave ,, 1 Ability to control immigration. Let's allow the people with skills to offer the UK in, instead of endless unskilled immigration from Europe.
    2 Control our own laws.
    3 Stop further political union with the EU.
    4 An end to unelected officials in Brussels telling the UK what it must do.
  3. proby

    proby Active Member

    And yet it was a record turnout, people obviously understood the importance of the vote.
  4. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Of course Blair thought the Middle East was the right thing to do. He got the Middle East Peace Envoy's job on the strength of what he'd done. (looking after himself again) ;);)

  5. You could see no advantages to remaining?

    Which means you didn't fully understand what you were voting for. And I fully accept the remain camp did not set out their reasons and explanations very well at all. Which also means you did not independantly research both sides of the argument. The result, yours was a protest vote. Against something you don't understand.

    Even if you voted against it, there were advantages, as people like May and Truss agreed and wanted.

    The only definite result from the vote was the fact that both sides were abyssmal at informing the public.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2017
  6. proby

    proby Active Member

    Blair was undoubtedly after a top job in the eu gravy train it was probably on the cards for him to be president and only being tainted stopped him, I wonder what we would be sighned up to now if he had been.
  7. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    I don't think I suggested that Brexit would create a moneyless world. To be honest, I don't see that World happening anytime soon.
    However, I disgagree with your assumption that the only way we can improve is through exporting more than we import. What would the effect be of taking the creation of money away from the private bankers? What would the effect be of stopping the lunacy of all of our money being created as debt, repayable with interest to private banks? The effects would be profound. We wouldn't have to be continually desperate for economic growth for a start. That growth is essential to pay the interest on our debt. Which it never does. The debt keeps rising and rising and rising. Despite any bluster about 'deficits' the debt has risen continually...globally. The US reaches it's debt ceiling and then kicks the can, Britain's debt practically doubled in the first term of Cameron's government! These things are down to the system of money itself. A system which was created by billionaire banking networks and which serves? Billionaire banking networks.
    It doesn't matter which government you vote for, red or blue, the debt continues to rise and I contend this is the primary reason why we need to chase things like increasing exports.

    But then, where in any of these debates or any other, is anyone talking about this stuff? What we talk about is the sticking plasters. We argue about the sticking plasters. The gaping wound goes without attention. Things are so bad now that if Britain say was to try what I suggested there, to do something like create debt free money (like Lincoln's greenback), we'd instantly become a rogue nation. We'd instantly become enemy number one. Heck, we'd probably end up like Lincoln or Gaddafi! Things are this bad with the gaping wound.

    These choices you outline are understandable. You're not wrong. But that doesn't make it right ;) Choosing a partner like the EU seems logical, just as you describe. Within this system you've got it bang on. Choose a way of getting by. Choose the best available option to keep food on the table. I don't disagree. What I'm saying is that the system itself presents us with these choices which aren't really the choices we'd ideally make. We are herded into those choices, by the system that contains them. And then, the EU will sign off on things like TTIP, will do it's part to enforce austerity so that the private banking networks get their lifeblood ;) It's a Hobson's choice.

    Yes, I'm being idealistic. Yes, I have no workable suggestion as to how we could bring about real change. I'm not denying that. Just saying that there could be other ways of going about things. And it doesn't hurt to muse on those things occasionally.
    SWBUILDERS likes this.
  8. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    So, what are your three pros of staying in the eu? What are your cons?

    SWBUILDERS Active Member

    Mr Cameron tried to re negotiating and failed miserably, people looked at his attempt and decided that his efforts were not acceptable this voted to leave.
    Please tell me you are not expecting the general population to investigate the inner workings of the European Union before they voted this would be quite a lenghty process and most people have jobs,kids and other commitments, they would have based there decision on their circumstances, not on EU subsidys for French farmers most people don't know who there local MEP is let alone the workings of the EU Parliament or commission and that's the way they like it so they can slip in legislation though the back door and re run referendums until they get the answer they want.

    If the remain side really wanted to the advantages of the EU to be made public there would have been more substance to their argument not idle threats and scaremongering, in fact I think before every telivised debate people in the audience were calling for information so they could make an informed choice not the drivel Cameron and his ilk were spouting.

    Please don't generalise on people's intellect when you know nothing about them or their personal circumstance.
    longboat likes this.
  10. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    I don't think it's fair to claim that globalization has increased all our country's wealth. Far from it. When I was a kid, one member of the family in Britain could go to work and the family could afford a roof over it's head off of that wage. Things are very different now. Few new families can ever afford to buy a home, even if both parents work and infant childcare is farmed out....Now even to get by many many families rely on tax credits, which are basically subsidies to business. I' won't claim this is all down to globalization but I'd go so far as to contend your claim is *** about face :) Globalization hasn't done much for those that make Iphones has it. Have their lives been massively improved by it? Globalization as it is has increased the wealth gap, globally. That's the reality of it isn't it.
    And I'm all for breaking down barriers between countries. I just don't see the EU as the only or best option in doing that. You only referred to 'political' and 'trade' barriers, are those the most important barriers then?

    Total respect for your snideness by the way :)

    Blair rescued the NHS? Um really? I thought he massively expanded it's involvement with the private sector? I thought he put more and more of it in the realms of profit motive?
    I'm not daft, I'm not going to suggest that everything Blair did was bad. I wouldn't suggest that everything Cameron or Maggie or Brown did was bad either. But they ALL do bad shizzle. All of them. Blair was no exception and yes, his legacy will always be a million dead Iraqis. That's before we even mention his role as Middle East peace envoy and lobbyist for bankers.

    Carry on though if you think my words, "demonstrate(s) Blair's point at how ill-informed was the 'thinking' behind the Leave vote", I wouldn't dream of trying to stop you. :)
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
    proby and longboat like this.
  11. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    No, of course I'm not - wouldn't dream of it.
    btiw likes this.
  12. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    Jack. 3 points for staying in the EU.

    1. Not having to worry about making decisions. (Germany will do it for us)

    2. Not having to worry about our money. (Ultimately joining the Euro)

    3. Not having to worry about jobs. (There won't be any, all taken by others)

    4 Points to leave.

    1. Making our own decisions.

    2. Keeping the Great British Pound.

    3. Jobs for British first.

    4. Being the country that stood up to the Establishment and said. ENOUGH.

    SWBUILDERS Active Member

    Great post!! The creation of fractional reserve banking has increased the misery of the world except the 1% of bankers, the involvement of Goldman sachs in the Greek crisis has shown how intwined countries and banking cartels are and as you point out why is there absolutely no debate on who controls the money of all but a few countries on the world (most of the few countries that do not have a central bank we are often invading or classed as enemy's)
  14. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    I refute your findings Jack. I truly couldn't come up with one genuine valid reason to remain in the EU. This doesn't mean I did not research both sides of the argument. I did and still couldn't find any good reason to remain.
    The Remain camp were all about Project Fear, Jack. Throughout the campaign, they made it clear that it was all doom and gloom. Not once did they focus on anything positive (and that speaks volumes Jack) If they couldn't find anything positive, then how the hell could the rest of us find something positive?
  15. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    Blair's legacy is a pension pot deficit due to trying to employ everybody in government, good for unemployment figures, very bad for the country long term, that on top of borrowing in amounts unheard off before to pay for his pipe dreams, all in all he ****** this country, the middle east and everything else he touched.
    proby and SWBUILDERS like this.

  16. So, how does leaving the eu impact on fractional reserve banking? It is the only part of uk that is keeping us going.

    It's not a recent thing either.

    And no, I don't support it. But I don't know any other way either.
  17. proby

    proby Active Member

    Yep all good will and spend someone else's money.
  18. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    I certainly wish this was a topic of discussion on a far more regular basis. The media allows the obfuscation of the truth by letting ministers et al go on about "the deficit" and getting it down....very very rare is it for the media to stop the talking head and say "hang on, the deficit is pretty meaningless, the reality is that the total debt keeps increasing year on year and the interest payments follow suit. We never pay any of the premium and we have to have things like austerity just to try and meet the interest payments and stop the country being insolvent. This system of fractional reserve and central banking doesn't work for anyone except the bankers and the politicians that enable it".

    You don't hear that when you watch the 6 o clock news do you. It's not talked about in schools, it's not talked about because we are supposed to pretend it's not reality. If everyone was fully aware of what money actually is, there'd be an instant end to it. There's no way people would put up with it. So it stays deliberately hidden and we keep getting fed titbits to keep us distracted and arguing about sticking plasters. :D
    SWBUILDERS likes this.
  19. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    It doesn't. But whilst we're all arguing about the EU and stuff, the FR banking system is grinning like a Cheshire Cat :D

    Every sovereign nation has the right to print it's own currency to meet the need of it's people. It's that simple....although it's far from simple because if you try it, you'll be destroyed. :D
  20. proby

    proby Active Member

    About 2006/7 I applied for a job at the hospital radiology department, building maintenance. Building was run by an Italian company so much for keeping it British.

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