Trying to gain a constant house temperature...

E

Eddie2023

New Member
Hi, I am trying to renovate my recently widowed mum's house for her, and have noticed the boiler heats the house very quickly, but the temperature also drops quite quick. I have a combi boiler in my house, so I don't know much about their boiler and gravity fed radiators. In hind sight should have taken some pics to post on here. I know it's gravity fed from a reservoir with a working ball valve in the loft, and a large tank in the airing cupboard upstairs which also appears to house some pipes for the rads including an assumed pump.
The boiler was installed by servowarm and about 30yrs old and has a dial on the front showing 1-7 once turned. Guess this is the built in thermostate. The main control panel shows water at the top and heating at the bottom. It allows you to programme cut in times etc. and to advance for an hour and so on.
The radiators heat up quickly and very hot to the touch, they have been bled recently. I'm not sure if my dad ever had them balanced, but mum has continued the servicing agreement which they've had from installation...

Is there any way I can level out the heat control to a more constant temperature range rather then the large up and downs we are experiencing....as my mum doesn't want the expense of a new one at the moment....

Thanks in advance for any help...!
 
Servowarm ! They were big in the 70’s

Also, what kind of house is it and the type of build. What are the condition of doors, windows, glazing in general. ? Is there any insulation in loft , walls elsewhere ?
 
quasar9 said:
Servowarm ! They were big in the 70’s

Also, what kind of house is it and the type of build. What are the condition of doors, windows, glazing in general. ? Is there any insulation in loft , walls elsewhere ?
Click to expand...
Hi, it's a 3 bed semi-detached house of brick construction from around the 1930s windows were suttons aluminium with mahogany frame all seems to be good although a bit of condensation in three panels of glass. All doors seem ok. There is loft insulation which is fibreglass to about 4-6 inches.
 
MRY said:
What are the thermostatic arrangements?
Click to expand...
Sorry I have no idea on this. I know that there is a dial on the front of the boiler and there seems to be a white rectangular control box on the side of the main hot water tank in the airing cupboard and there appears to be another white electrical box just below the maroon pump looks like it's got a white dial with a possible slot adjustment to it. Sorry for being so vague....
 
1. The heat going into a property depends on the temperature difference between the radiators and the rooms.
2. High water temperature from the boiler will result in a fast heat up, and then the boiler either turning itself down (modern boiler) or off.
3. Once the temperature drops below the required temperature, as set on a room thermostat, the boiler turns itself up, or on, and the rooms warm again.
4. If there is no room thermostat, then the water will come on according to the programmed time setting, run until the water returning to it from the heating system reaches about the set temperature of the boiler's own thermostat (your 1 to 7 dial) and switch off. It will stay off until the water in the boiler cools sufficiently for it to start again. Thus the heating bears little relationship to individual room temperatures.
5. It sounds to me as if you either have no room thermostat, or it is set wrongly. The remedy would be to fit one, and make sure it is properly set and used.
6. You could go further by fitting thermostatic radiator valves (TRVs) to each radiator, except in the room with the room thermostat. This might also require an automatic bypass valve to be fitted in case all the TRVs shut down leaving the pump battling against a closed circuit. In this way each room could be set to be a comfortable temperature.
7. In summary, and assuming your system can accommodate these measures:
7a. Fit a room thermostat or make sure any existing one is working. You can get remotely operating ones if wiring is a problem.
7b. Turn the boiler down to 4 or 5 on its thermostat. This will give a slower heat up time, but should also stop it turning off too soon.
7c. Fit TRVs to each radiator except the one in the room with the room thermostat. Fit an auto bypass valve if necessary.
7d. While the work is being done, particularly 7c. you might consider a system clean and fitting a magnetic filter in the return pipe to the boiler.
7e. Costs obviously vary, but I'd say £100 for a room thermostat, half that if wired, £30 each for the TRVs, £50 for an auto bypass valve, £125 for a decent filter. Say £200 for other bits and pieces. Labour depends on accessibilty, how many radiators and where you are in the country, but probably two man days or thereabouts.
 
A 30’s semi with solid 9” brick wall will loose heat fast. The windows seem to be old, single glazed with no thermal break between the glass and frame, leading to condensation inside. A few pics will help
 
quasar9 said:
A few pics will help
Click to expand...
But only if you put them over the windows....

My mother was going to have the room thermostat removed because a) she didn't like the look of it, where it was on the wall and in that room and b) because she could tell my father to turn radiators on and off as it suited her - like a human TRV.

She never quite understood her heating system I'm afraid despite living there for over 30 years.

Repeated attempts to explain how to use it failed - and that was her heating engineer every year when he serviced it.
 
andy48 said:
1. The heat going into a property depends on the temperature difference between the radiators and the rooms.
2. High water temperature from the boiler will result in a fast heat up, and then the boiler either turning itself down (modern boiler) or off.
3. Once the temperature drops below the required temperature, as set on a room thermostat, the boiler turns itself up, or on, and the rooms warm again.
4. If there is no room thermostat, then the water will come on according to the programmed time setting, run until the water returning to it from the heating system reaches about the set temperature of the boiler's own thermostat (your 1 to 7 dial) and switch off. It will stay off until the water in the boiler cools sufficiently for it to start again. Thus the heating bears little relationship to individual room temperatures.
5. It sounds to me as if you either have no room thermostat, or it is set wrongly. The remedy would be to fit one, and make sure it is properly set and used.
6. You could go further by fitting thermostatic radiator valves (TRVs) to each radiator, except in the room with the room thermostat. This might also require an automatic bypass valve to be fitted in case all the TRVs shut down leaving the pump battling against a closed circuit. In this way each room could be set to be a comfortable temperature.
7. In summary, and assuming your system can accommodate these measures:
7a. Fit a room thermostat or make sure any existing one is working. You can get remotely operating ones if wiring is a problem.
7b. Turn the boiler down to 4 or 5 on its thermostat. This will give a slower heat up time, but should also stop it turning off too soon.
7c. Fit TRVs to each radiator except the one in the room with the room thermostat. Fit an auto bypass valve if necessary.
7d. While the work is being done, particularly 7c. you might consider a system clean and fitting a magnetic filter in the return pipe to the boiler.
7e. Costs obviously vary, but I'd say £100 for a room thermostat, half that if wired, £30 each for the TRVs, £50 for an auto bypass valve, £125 for a decent filter. Say £200 for other bits and pieces. Labour depends on accessibilty, how many radiators and where you are in the country, but probably two man days or thereabouts.
Click to expand...
Blimey, what an in-depth answer, thankyou. The thermostatic valves are something I was thinking as I have them in my house, and clearly numbered for my mum to adjust herself.
Are all wall hard wired thermostats compatible with most makes of boilers...? As my mum mostly lives and sleeps in the lounge I was thinking that would be the best location for it.
 
quasar9 said:
A 30’s semi with solid 9” brick wall will loose heat fast. The windows seem to be old, single glazed with no thermal break between the glass and frame, leading to condensation inside. A few pics will help
Click to expand...
The windows are double glassed about 13mm from memory, but no where near to the thickness of modern day one's....
 
WillyEckerslike said:
But only if you put them over the windows....

My mother was going to have the room thermostat removed because a) she didn't like the look of it, where it was on the wall and in that room and b) because she could tell my father to turn radiators on and off as it suited her - like a human TRV.

She never quite understood her heating system I'm afraid despite living there for over 30 years.

Repeated attempts to explain how to use it failed - and that was her heating engineer every year when he serviced it.
Click to expand...
Sounds very similar, bless our mother's...
After 53 years I think I've got to get my grey cells working on it....lol..
 
IMG_20220130_211034.jpg IMG20220129194853.jpg Sorry for delay but I managed to get some photos over the weekend...I hope this help to explain our problems. It's a Potterton Profile boiler...
 
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Jimbo said:
If it heats up too quickly, turn the boiler temperature down. Probably the 1-7 knob. Say it's on 5, try it on 3 instead.
Click to expand...
We have tried that and a few other combinations and it still is violent on the heating up and then rapid heat loss. Doesn't seem to be a constant temperature we can keep. I haven't actually messed about with the valves either side of the radiator to restrict flow rate but worried about affecting the balance as the upstairs and the downstairs have been set to certain temperatures which at the moment I'm not 100% sure on. It's still a working process and trying to learn.... And then relay to me mum to my best ability...
Thanks again for any feedback much appreciated...
 
If the heating isn't on for long, the fabric of the building won't get up to temperature and the heat loss will be very rapid, it will be the same regardless of the heating system.

I'd be looking at making sure the loft is insulated properly as a starting point, get a load of top-up insulation rolled out up there
 
If the rads are all getting hot then they’re doing their job - and the boiler too - but perhaps they’re not big enough for the rooms, or the building isn’t well insulated. Our house is about 140 years old with high ceilings. If we go away in the winter and turn off the heating it can take 4 or 5 days for the building to ‘soak up’ the heat when it’s back on again, and only then we can maintain a comfortable temperature.
 
Maybe the (30 year old) boiler stat is broken resulting in massive overshoot.

Putting in any modern control with TPI program will automatically reduce the flow temperature by cycling the boiler on-and-off as set point is approached so will help, but the boiler flow should be set to roughly the right flow temperature for the maximum heat demand of the property in the first place.
 
Jimbo said:
Maybe the (30 year old) boiler stat is broken resulting in massive overshoot.

Putting in any modern control with TPI program will automatically reduce the flow temperature by cycling the boiler on-and-off as set point is approached so will help, but the boiler flow should be set to roughly the right flow temperature for the maximum heat demand of the property in the first place.
Click to expand...
 
Can a modern-day thermostat be fitted to the existing control unit or is it best to fit completely new components to the existing boiler. Just considering best options. The boiler is situated behind the lounge wall so fitting a thermostat through into the lounge, sounds like a good location for a thermostat. Along with previous post of adding more insulation sound good to me....which I could just roll over the existing fibreglass insulation...
 
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