Unintended consequences.......

Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by WillyEckerslike, Dec 29, 2018.

  1. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Can you tell us which laws we haven't ceded to the EU. Exactly which part/s of our laws are outside EU influence ? Did we have a democratic vote on the Lisbon Treaty? Was it ever put to a public vote whether to instruct our PM at the time to sign the Treaty?
    By 2022 EU law will be sacrosanct across the member states.(again they call them states and not countries) Since when were the UK, France, Belgium, Italy, Greece, Sweden etc, etc states and not countries?
    The EU Parliament and ECJ become the supreme lawmakers across the EU (include the UK if we remain)
    By 2022 we will join the Schengen Area Agreement (no if's, no buts)
    By 2022 we will be forced to join the Euro. once this happens it will be the EU who control personal taxation. They will set VAT rates. Our own parliament might as well abandon Westminster, because the EU will own us completely. And you truly want this?
     
  2. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Yep, we do think you're confused (and have been for a long time)
     
  3. Hans_25

    Hans_25 Screwfix Select

    False. Where did you dig this lie up from?
     
  4. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Hmmm Hans, the self appointed expert on the EU, reckons the EU won't force the Euro on all members by 2022 ? Does this mean the EU will ignore their own Lisbon Treaty ( you know the one surely)
     
    retiredsparks likes this.
  5. btiw2

    btiw2 Screwfix Select

    You've heard those quips that begin "If you look in the dictionary under..."?
    You know the form. For example: If you look in the dictionary under misinformed, it says "see JJ".

    If you look in EU Lex (the EU law site) glossary under opting out (https://eur-lex.europa.eu/summary/glossary/opting_out.html) it includes this in its list:

    Examples of opt-outs include:
    • Schengen Agreement: Ireland and the United Kingdom;
    • economic and monetary union: Denmark and the United Kingdom;
    • defence: Denmark
    • EU Charter of Fundamental Rights: Poland and the United Kingdom;
    • area of freedom, security and justice: Denmark, Ireland and the United Kingdom (the latter two countries may opt into given initiatives if they wish).

    It's so well known that it's literally an exemplar.

    You prefer to be informed by a facebook post rather than, you know, searching the actual treaty (where the exceptions for each country are listed).

    Surely a thimbleful of common sense should have made you suspicious.
    We're not seeing pictures of the proposed new UK Euro bank note designs.
    We're not hearing computer programmers complain about the code that needs re-writing.
    We're not reading about the challenges shops and banks will face during the changeover.

    I can't believe you were gullible enough to swallow that tripe.

    I'd call your post "project fear", but that doesn't quite capture its inanity. *
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2019
    Hans_25 likes this.
  6. btiw2

    btiw2 Screwfix Select

    But rather than keep going back and forth, let's examine the claims and make a wager.

    Your claim is that if we remain in the EU then we'll have to adopt the Euro by 2022.
    *

    To resolve this, let me offer you a deal based on your chosen source document - the Lisbon treaty (or presumably the Treaty of the Functioning of the EU [the treaty which engulfed the treaty of Lisbon]).
    • If I can't find the section in the treaty that explicitly reaffirms our Euro opt out then I'll publicly announce on this forum that I'm a moron, who was very, very mistaken.
    • If I can find the section in the treaty that explicitly reaffirms our Euro opt out then you'll publicly announce on this forum that you're a moron, who was very, very mistaken.
    Deal?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2019
    Hans_25 likes this.
  7. Gringo28

    Gringo28 Active Member

    *
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance...l-EU-members-will-have-to-adopt-the-euro.html

    The eu has one mandate.Total domination.
    The leave vote is the best thing that has ever happened in UK politics *

    Imagine joining a club on the basis of doing trade for goods and eventually being brow beaten into accepting people from foreign countries in exchange for being a member and allowed to trade. On their terms only !
    And you remoaner idiots want to continue down this path.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2019
  8. btiw2

    btiw2 Screwfix Select

    *

    Firstly, that isn’t the treaty of Lisbon, is it?

    But to quote from your document:
    Indeed, by 2020, all but five member states of the EU are due to be euro members and Poland is likely to join by then as well, leaving just the UK, Denmark, Sweden and Bulgaria outside.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2019
  9. retiredsparks

    retiredsparks Super Member

    Gringo...just block him....he 'aint got nuffin to say about anything.
    It annoys the hell out of them.
    ;)
    RS
     
  10. Gringo28

    Gringo28 Active Member

    The best thing since Churchill became prime minister in 1940 I would say.
     
  11. Isitreally

    Isitreally Super Member

    May deals defeated by a 230 margin.

    What now???

    Well by rights we should just walk, will we??.

    Corbyn calls for a "vote of no confidence in Government ".

    God help us if that goes his way.
     
    Heat likes this.
  12. Gringo28

    Gringo28 Active Member

    We just leave.
    Thats what the majority voted for.
     
    Heat likes this.
  13. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Leave and revert to WTO rules is the only way.... But,, you know May is going back to the EU to keep her hopes of tying us to the EU for years to come. Yes they'll throw her a few crumbs of hope that parliament might be fooled by.
     
  14. Crowsfoot

    Crowsfoot Screwfix Select

    Churchill was a big believer in a European common market.
    His thinking being that if countries owned factories in other countries then those countries would be very reluctant to bomb factories that they themselves owned....makes sense you know.
     
  15. Crowsfoot

    Crowsfoot Screwfix Select


    Could be the way to go though; right now we're all just looking for a way out....nationalising the water company's and railways would shift the pendulum away from the brexit??
     
  16. retiredsparks

    retiredsparks Super Member

    It's a Mexican stand off.
    MP's have done her in with 230 vote.(which means that they don't want the crooked deal she is trying to push)
    MP's will have to support May tonight to stop the idiot Corbyn calling election... and maybe getting in.
    May will try to ignore the democratic decision of the country.
    The corrupt and undemocratic EU will not budge as she has shown she is weak and wants to remain.

    The EU wants to crush us for having the temerity to be democratic and use us as an example to other lesser countries not to try the same thing.

    The very best we can hope for is the 29th as passed in UK Law.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2017-11-10/time-and-date-of-brexit-to-be-written-in-law/

    AS JRM has noted in HoC..."what the PM says and what the PM does is two different things"

    RS
     
    dinkydo likes this.
  17. dinkydo

    dinkydo Screwfix Select

    I’m afraid we have what we have, a weak leader who was/is a remainer who has made herself look a fool repeatedly going back to Juncker & co for scraps, I do believe she is being leaned on by the likes of Carney and other project fear mongers

    I don’t believe a general election will be triggered by all of this, who in their right mind would want to see Corbyn and his lackys in power, when that is sorted she could save some face by addressing the country to reaffirm that we will be leaving the EU on the 29th March as is stated in law, she should then stay away from Europe and get on with other domestic issues

    When we get to within a day or two of that date we will then see who blinks first, but that should be of no concern to a government who should be fulfilling the wishes of its people
     
    longboat, Gringo28 and retiredsparks like this.
  18. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Well May has escaped a general election by the skin of her teeth, but the results show a lot of her own party do not support her. I think she should do the honourable thing and stand down as PM.
    Anyway, where's DA been this past few days ? Missing in action presumably.
     
  19. Isitreally

    Isitreally Super Member

    She can't stand down, who would take over.??

    She does have trouble understanding what "the will of the people " means though, otherwise we would leave with no deal as required by the winning side of people.
     
    Heat likes this.
  20. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    BoJo or JRM. That'd make the EU sit up n take notice.
    Where's DA when ya need him ? ;);)
     
    Heat likes this.

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