"Unsatisfactory" EICR for underrated MCB (20 Amp instead of 32 Amp)

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Ardent, Aug 29, 2020.

  1. rogerk101

    rogerk101 Screwfix Select

    The issue here is not how many notifiable jobs were cocked up in one way or another ... it's about the monstrous cock-up that the newly mandated EICRs represent.
    It's normal that the sparks conducting the inspection and testing required for an EICR will want to cover their ar8es, so they will err on the side of caution, even if that is over the top. Something which is clearly a C3 for most, but where a case COULD be made that it might be a C2 under certain circumstances, will quite frequently be listed as a C2 if there is any (even remote) possibility that giving it the C3 that it should have could end up causing future hassles for the spark. Not only will a typical spark avoid any risk in giving it a C2, but they could even earn some money rectifying the issue.
    The guidelines are far too open to interpretation and landlords are unlikely to be wise enough to know when they're being strung along; so they basically end up at the mercy of sometimes devious but usually cautious sparks, who really don't want their work turning into a liability case.
    I have no idea what the perfect solution would be, but the current situation is already a mess and it's only been mandatory for new tenancies for a couple of months. Just wait until EICRs are mandated for existing tenancies starting in April 2012 ... then we'll see the real mess this has got us into.
     
  2. Banallsheds

    Banallsheds Active Member

    Part P is a building regulation not a registration scheme.

    There are no [nil] part P registered electricians.
     
  3. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    I don't think anyone else is that bothered tbh m8.
     
  4. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    Yes, but it’s important to say something, even if you have nothing to say. :rolleyes:
     
  5. Hfs

    Hfs Active Member

    Ok registered electricians who can notify jobs in accordance with Part P of the Building Regulations, who are registered with an authorised Part P competent persons scheme provider such as NICEIC registered electricians or Elecsa Registered electricians that fall under the certsure brand. If you are still struggling with the concept take a look here https://www.elecsa.co.uk/Householders/Electrical-Competent-Person.aspx
     
  6. Ardent

    Ardent Member

    Sorry guys, I had another question following on from this, that a friend of mine mentioned.
    He said that the Zs values look calculated rather than being true measures. It seems to follow a consistent increase of 0.01 between R1+R2 and Zs... what are your thoughts on this?
     
  7. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    It is acceptable to do that. Zs=Ze+(R1+R2).

    That's the least of your worries.
     
  8. sparko69

    sparko69 Active Member

    Screwfix forum is not specifically a registration scheme but you still registered on here
     
  9. Ardent

    Ardent Member

    LOL... Yeah, you're right.
    I'm just thinking that, apart from spurious Codes, if he's also cutting corners by not taking try readings, that's taking the **** just that bit more
     
  10. sparko69

    sparko69 Active Member

    Readings can be gained by enquiry, by calculation or by measurement
     
    Bazza likes this.
  11. Bigtoe

    Bigtoe New Member

    Once you start getting suspect EICR I personally start being concerned of what you can’t see. So in general when you get people saying you can measure calculate you can BUT who says that the Ze was accurate/measured etc. Hence when you say as per Ardent EICR you can Zs = R1+R2 + Ze is at least of your worries I’d say that weren’t the case. Zs values are important for disconnection times etc. Also every circuit has been calculated why with no limitations would you not measure the circuits just my 2 pence worth.
     
  12. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Because it's not necessary. You can measure the R1+R2 and add that to the Ze. Or you can measure Zs and deduct Ze to get R1+R2. You are NOT testing to verify disconnection times you are testing to verify the continuity of the cpc. Thats why there is an option to just do R2. The cpc continuity. You record readings to see that they are within expected tolerances. Its not an initial verification it's an inspection. You would expect that with no faults all Zs etc are within tolerance else it was designed incorrectly in the first place. You need to take reasonable steps to ascertain the safety of the circuit, that's all.
     
  13. Bigtoe

    Bigtoe New Member

    Check appendix 14 you measure in bs7671 it states everywhere measure. Then to calculate. Id always measure if you can.
     
  14. Bigtoe

    Bigtoe New Member

    Exactly who knows if the Ze was tested etc.
     
  15. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    But you are missing the point entirely. If you start this 'who knows if Ze was measured' malarky then who knows if anything was measured? You need to have some integrity of testing and that comes with experience. There is more to an EICR than putting a C2 for everything you find like most seem to be doing.
     
  16. Bigtoe

    Bigtoe New Member

    Totally agree. And that’s my point from my first post check regulation 612.9 just to be clear I’m gaining knowledge here myself from your posts etc.thanks unfazed
     
  17. Bigtoe

    Bigtoe New Member

    I’d say it weren’t marlarky because if I’m paying people to do EICR I would worry
     
  18. Bigtoe

    Bigtoe New Member

    That circuit that was deemed C2 could of easily been more accurate. It seems to me as just because it was on ring they insisted it be a 32amp it seems also weird why it was on a ring with just point. A simple solution to me would of remove one leg do a continuity test from the board and the reinstalled one leg and put it on a radial. And code it a C3?
     
  19. Bigtoe

    Bigtoe New Member

    If we knew the load etc this heater could be ok with the method above as it’s 2.5/1.5 cable and on a 10amp breaker
     
  20. Bigtoe

    Bigtoe New Member

    in my opinion R1+R2 identifies the continuity of the cpc.
    R1+R2 to confirm continuity of cpc and The main reason for earth loop impedance testing – which is often simply called loop testing – is to verify that, if a fault occurs in an electrical installation, sufficient current will flow to operate the fuse or circuit breaker protecting the faulty circuit within a predetermined time.
     

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