wet tiled floor ,tingle off towel rail

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DibDobDave

New Member
just tiled a floor today noticed when wet and touched copper pipework small shock ,just wondered if fault on cable under floor, or possibility put screw through cable under ply and showing when floor wet ,positive i havent though ,thoughts anyone many thanks in advance
 
Come up a couple of times this one, even I have had it on one of my jobs. Always when electric under floor heating is present. My job was under the 16th eddition when the copper pipework was bonded to the lighting circuit etc.

The customer said that after getting out of the shower she got a very slight tingle off the towel radiator. I wonder if its just an induced voltage from the heating element under the floor. It was certainly not from the towel rad as this was at zero volts and the floor was effectively earth free. I believe ceramic is a very good insulator.
 
i am plumber by trade,customer got ther own spark in has done some work under floor new spots in kitchen ,circuit to cooker etc ,my mate who is a spark suggested multi meter on copper and to earth terminal on socket to check
 
Oscar, you're a bloody danger to your customers....

"I wonder if its just an induced voltage" - indeed!


This isn't a simple, trivial 'induced voltage' - it's a loss of earthing to the towel rail - or even a supply earth fault. Either way, it needs to be checked by a proper electrician.......



Lucia.
 
A good test would be to megger between the (disconnected) conductors of the under floor heating and the pipework.
 
A good test would be to megger between the (disconnected) conductors of the under floor heating and the pipework.
---------------
Even better would be a 'low ohms' test between radiator/pipework /met!
 
I wonder if the fault if with the FLOOR or the TOWEL RAIL ;)

It could be lack of supp bonding - "perceived shock" is certainly an issue when speaking of PME TN-C-S supplies. Go google.
 
999M ohms to all earths.

Even if the towel rad was at +240V I cant see a tiled floor conducting anything that you would notice.
 
Where is you 999 from?

Perceived shocck is more of an issue than some may think....

It is the main reason why PME TN-S-C is not supplied to swimming pools or communal shower rooms.
 
My 999 is from a much lengthier post I made, most of which I have forgot by now. Something about there not being any leakage between the UFH matting and a well earthed towel rad. Yet still a tingle between the floor and pipework.

The property I'm on about had an underground lead sheathed cable with a low Ze, however I think this comes from a overhead supply in the next field from a pole and transformer.
 
Lec, I know what you mean by perceived shock - particularly on TN-C-S supplies - but almost always that 'ps' is always on the ground floor and in a particularly earthy situation.

This O/P is a tiler, his tiled floor is apparently above ground floor. He's getting a shock from the towel rail.

So, he needs to get an electrician in for true peace of mind rather than reading theories.......


Lucia.
 
This isn't a simple, trivial 'induced voltage' - it's a loss of earthing to the towel rail - or even a supply earth fault. Either way, it needs to be checked by a proper electrician.......

......................................................

Thats a broad and sweeping statement Lucia. So the said is the cause?

I rather think other factors may possibly be operational and should be taken into consideration..of course after first checking earth patency of the rail and maybe the MET. Yes it could be a loss of earthing..but then again something else could cause the tingle.
 
Lucia, just suppose the towel rad is at +240V what is completing the circuit to create a shock, I cant see it being the floor, specially as you say its one storey up.

Much more likely the towel rad is acting as the return back to earth.
 
Sod orf, JP. The O/P is a tiler. I've advised him to get a proper electrician in.

Are you telling him to ignore this problem?


Lucia.
 
So that would be synonymous with a nicked live under the floor Oscar? (remembering that grout saturates etc)
 
For goodness sake Lucia I'm not telling him to do anything..I was merely observing and remembered this scenario on one of my jobs many years back..although it didn't involve a towel rail but most certainly involved a screwed live which livened the tiles up.
 
So that would be synonymous with a nicked live under the floor Oscar? (remembering that grout saturates etc)

Yes it would JP, however I have had this problem with no electrical faults whatsoever, which brings me back to an induced voltage from my UFH, if its enough to make an earth spark on a load free cable its enough to feel through an insulating floor, maybe even capacitance, I'm not an electronics expert by any means.

And I did summise that the op had UFH to begin with.
 
Oscar, would you please stop going on about UFH on this thread? The O/P never said that he had UFH and he has since confirmed that fact.


This tiler needs to get an electrician to help him.


Lucia.
 
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