What insurance do I need?

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by fobos, Sep 19, 2016.

  1. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    PI will pay for the lawyers to defend you against a consequential loss claim from a latent defect. I can't talk about the case I mentioned above as there is a non D on it, so here's an analogy. You are a loft converter and take on a contract for a loft conversion. The SE says he wants a concrete block wall to hold up an RSJ. At the merchants they have some blocks from a new foreign importer, correct spec, all certified, unknown brand, half the price. You use them because they are the correct spec. Everyone is happy. Job signed off and handed over. 4 years down the line, they crumble and the beam collapses dangerously. Unfortunately the loft conversion is on top of a car showroom, and they have to stop trading. They sue you for loss of business at £100K/week for 3 months. The warranty on the block itself you chose to use is meaningless. You could try suing the supplier yourself, but they are in Bulgaria. No PI and you are in the poo. If you have PI (with appropriate cover), the insurers will provide the lawyers to fight your corner, agree a settlement at arbitration ahead of Court and make a payment to satisfy the claimant.

    SWBUILDERS Active Member

    But you still haven't designed anything or given advise you have merely followed a product spec and in this particular example as I've already said an insurance backed warranty on the job would be far more comprehensive please see link I posted to JCT contract insurance recommendations
  3. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    We are trying to put across a point to somebody who doesn't want to understand
  4. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    deleted. too much information.
  5. fobos

    fobos Member

    Thanks for all your comments - I can see it has stoked some interest. At the moment its just me and a labourer doing loft conversions and small extensions in the region of £50,000.

    I've decided I'm not going to get Professional Indemnity Insurance as I don't think its necessary as I don't design anything. Everything is specified/designed for me, architects drawing and structural engineer's spec etc. In effect I just follow a set of instructions. I'm not going to get Professional Liability Insurance just for the sake of it.

    I don't make any changes to the spec unless it is okayed by the designers.

    I've been advised by a very experienced Insurance broker friend to only get it if I start doing design and build.

    Cheers, Andrew
    SWBUILDERS likes this.

    SWBUILDERS Active Member

    You got it mate listen to experts that's what I did and if you need to do sometime that involve high risk work in occupied buildings or demolition take out a insurance backed warranty far cheaper and will last for a time period set with yourself and the client, good luck with your new business

    SWBUILDERS Active Member

    Oh and sos I'm not sure it's me who is not wanting to listen, if you stand by your post that your pi will pay for remedial work to be done then you really do need to check your cover :eek:
  8. dwlondon

    dwlondon Active Member

    Well the answer is you don't buy the slightly suspect Bulgarian product.

    The two statutory insurances are motor and employer's. All the others are optional if you want to buy them. You take your chances and the more you pay the better the deal. But that might take a lot out of your profit
  9. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    Yet more arrogance. You do not know anything about me or my background experience yet make sweeping assumptions. For all you know, I may have more expertise in assurance and assurance than you assume

    SWBUILDERS Active Member

    It was not arrogant you've proved that's not the case with your previous comments, showing lack of knowledge in the procurement of construction work and poor advice given to someone who is setting up a new business, I'm sorry but if an insurance broker is advising him this cover is not needed that is all the proof needed as they will sell you any kind of cover they can! I would suggest someone who will not admit they are wrong when is confronted with overwhelming evidence is the arrogant one!!!!
  11. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    [QUOTE="scott belton, post: 1450451, member: 162094"showing lack of knowledge in the procurement of construction![/QUOTE]

    Again how do you know this!

    You know nothing of my qualifications which include a Phd, Masters in engineering, 3 normal degrees one of which is in Architecture and Design, second is renewables and a third in IT, 6 Fellowships including Risk Management, Project Management and Electrical Engineer. Amongst other industries spent 10 years working with insurance companies alone,followed by legal and Policing . I am also an expert witness for court

    I have managed projects in excess of £650m across the UK and Europe.

    Do you want to get back in your box and stop making rash assumptions on peoples experience

    So do you have
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2016
  12. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    And one of the biggest PI, PI and risk assessment piece of work I did for a merchant bank was the Channel tunnel.

    So yes I don't know anything about PI & PL

    SWBUILDERS Active Member

    god help us then, and after all that you still can't destingush between design and build and traditional contracts!! Or that PI will not pay out for remedial work to be carried out only consequential damages? even rusty has confirmed this to you. And a expert witness £1 a month PI policy hmmmm?
  14. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    Just shows how much arrogance and attitude you have and the ability to make worthless assumptions. I had a near fatal accident several years ago which left me with a career ending injury which prevents me continuing in my previous roles. It took me 2 years of learning to walk and talk properly a further year to get the motor skills and coordination back between my eyes and hands. It has taken me a further 2 years to get quality back into my work.

    Because of my residual injuries I can no longer take on big projects and I am limited to only smaller jobs with less risk - hence my top PI limit is £5m for the sum of £1 a week.

    So going back into your little box yet......

    SWBUILDERS Active Member

    assumptions? In your previous message you stated you were a expert witness I was only going on what you had stated not sure that's an assumption but hey ho it probably is in your mind. And attitude I'm sorry but you keep on asking me to get in a little box not sure what that means but it obviously seems to give you some sort of amusement. I wasn't asking for your CV (as impressive as it is) but since you have listed it it seems you have spent most of your life as an academic? I also have academic qualifications but your list is far more impressive. I also didn ask for your life history as unfortunate as it sounds. All I was debating was the relevance of PI for trades people, and I think you will find if you asked both trades people and insurers that the percentage of non design professionals that have this cover would be very low
  16. dwlondon

    dwlondon Active Member

    My insurance policy costs me nothing. If any work seems risky or out of my skill area I don't do it.
  17. Wayners

    Wayners Screwfix Select

    I'll pitch in.
    Years ago some plasterboard flew off my van roof and hit a pallet of bricks that had been sitting on a drive for years by looks of things, the board split in 2 and one bit went through the neighbours lounge window. I never noticed or heard it as was inside unloading a sheet of plasterboard from van roof. Guy come out and said.. Your plasterboard is in my lounge.. I stood there confused as never seen it happen. Put in a claim but it was never processed because of what happend next. Glass only £80 ish the bill was. The problem was I called an Emergency glass company that turned up to replace. Wind blew and the glass sliced fitters hand open. I took him to A&E then fitted glass myself. Insurance got funny about it so I backed off. Nightmare. Real nightmare. I was only 19 and just starting out. Stress was to much. All day and all I had done was unload 4 sheets of board and deal with wind damage.
    PC Works likes this.
  18. PC Works

    PC Works Member

    What happened in the end? You didn't claim or someone tried to sue you?

    Insurance companies will look for any reason not to pay out. If you have problems always worth taking them to the insurance ombudsman-I know it was many years ago
  19. Wayners

    Wayners Screwfix Select

    I ended up paying for work myself. Wasn't worth claiming unless I got the glass company to up the bill. Maybe I could of billed for my labour? Really don't know. They got funny as I was only billed for glass +call out. I fitted myself because of the fitters hand injury. Never claimed then or since

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