What to do about stud wall and fitting kitchen units!

Discussion in 'Kitchen Fitters' Talk' started by bc.alice, Nov 23, 2020.

  1. bc.alice

    bc.alice New Member

    Our kitchen had been designed so that all our kitchen cupboards are going to go on a stud wall, we ripped off the top layer of plasterboard to install batons across and put a sheet of plywood over the top to spread the load.

    disaster, it’s an eggbox/paramount wall!!

    We took all the ‘egg box’ off, and the gap is about 38mm and has a couple of 2x2 batons not really secured to anything, now my question is, do you think we would get away with installing 2x2 batons across the wall to make it more secure and then apply the plywood again? Would 2x2 batons be strong enough to hold the weight of kitchen cabinets?

    Or do we have to knock it down and build a proper stud wall?

    helppp

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  2. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    I would knock it down and reinstate it without a doubt, bearing in mind any gain in depth may affect the kitchen fitting later on.
     
    bc.alice likes this.
  3. bc.alice

    bc.alice New Member

    Thank you, thought that was going to be the case, it’s going to have to go into our living room or the kitchen won’t fit!!
     
    Jord86 likes this.
  4. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    Don't use any less than 18mm ply to sheathe the wall and if you can determine the height of the wall units before you cover the studs you can fix additional timber noggins in between the studs to catch the brackets later on for real peace of mind.
     
  5. bc.alice

    bc.alice New Member

    Thank you so much Jord!!
     
    Jord86 likes this.
  6. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    Glue and screw a few more uprights in and fix noggins where needed for the wall cabinets.
    Stick 12.5 PB with expanding foam onto the area and fix with screws into the timbers.
    That will be more than adequate for a run of wall cabinets. Many existing units are fixed onto paramount walls - as they are - without any problems whatsoever.
     
    bc.alice likes this.
  7. DIYDave.

    DIYDave. Screwfix Select

    Keep the perimeter timbers and add uprights and horizontal noggins so essentially, you are building a stud wall, just keeping what's already there (that's assuming new timber will match existing depth of what's there) ? If not, replace the lot

    Plasterboard over and plaster skim (dependant on what's happening to wall finish / base units / splash back) keeping measurements of stud centres

    Use this system to hang your wall units, 'suspension rail and adjustable brackets'

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cabinet-Ha...ocphy=1007091&hvtargid=pla-609858363045&psc=1

    Shop around as ever, this is an example, gives you 2x1m rails
    Plenty of fixing positions in rail so beefy screws into studs - 5x50s at least (depending on size of studs)

    Many of the wall units come with the suspension type brackets and 2 short wall brackets (which you wont be using) but if not, can buy the brackets separately and fit to wall units (will need to cut a notch out cupboard backs for the hook)
    These brackets give you simple adjustment up/down and tight to wall to line them up to their neighbours

    https://www.screwfix.com/p/nylon-cabinet-brackets-with-mounting-plate-10-pack/91611

    Just another idea :)
     
    bc.alice and ramseyman like this.
  8. bc.alice

    bc.alice New Member

    Thank you so much both, I really appreciate your help!!
     
  9. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    I will politely point out that the wall is nearly down as it currently is, and the opportunity to build a new stronger stud wall from 63x38mm CLS or 3x2, rockwool between studs for soundproofing, fully covered kitchen side with 18mm plywood as opposed to cutting pattresses in between the studs or relying on plasterboard fixings is something I would not pass up on, especially if planning to tile splashback areas or the wall itself with extra added weight.
     
    bc.alice, unwokeable and Kingscurate like this.
  10. DIYDave.

    DIYDave. Screwfix Select

    Plasterboard fixings ?

    I suggested using a continuous hanging rail, screwed into newly fitted vertical studs with beefy wood screws
    Obviously the overall strength of the stud wall is of major importance here, whether using all new CLS or keeping the perimeter timbers and adding new, both studs and noggins
    Again, the head and sole plates need to be well secured but again, that kinda goes without saying I would hope
    If the existing perimeter timbers or shot, or dimensions don't match with new studs then yes, i get it, for the hassle, rip the lot out and start from scratch

    A tiled splashback either over raw plasterboard or skimmed board..... what's the drawback there
    35mm dry lining boxes for sockets (yeah, one fella on sparks forum hates them but essentially they work and used in the millions surely)

    Soundproofing between studs for sure, one stud wall at home we had built, the builder omitted this for some reason and the sound transfer is a major annoyance

    I'm only diy and will happily admit I'm not doing this type of work on a daily basis, just interested in various methods
     
    bc.alice likes this.
  11. bc.alice

    bc.alice New Member

    We’ve admitted defeat and are just going to rip it down and build a new stud wall, as you say, it’s nearly down already!
    In term of the ply we are going to take your advice and use that, should we ply the whole wall, and if so, do you know if we can tile directly onto the ply?

    (Ps, the whole wall is going to be covered in cupboards/tiles so none will be visible so I’m hoping we don’t need to skim!)
     
  12. unwokeable

    unwokeable Member

    Fully agree with jord above. Build a new stud wall from 3x2, if as advised by jord you are going to fully clad the kitchen side with ply put the studs at 16" centres rather than 400mm, it is easier to cut plasterboard than ply. If you do not use ply, fit a row of 6x2 noggings to hang the wall units from.
    You will also be able to fit noggings for the electrical back boxes, always fit metal when you can fast fix are a last resort to get out of trouble.
    Get the walls skimmed and not taped and jointed, skimming is a far better job.
     
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  13. bc.alice

    bc.alice New Member

    Okay, so build a stud wall with 3x2, studs at 16” centres, fit noggings for electrical boxes and where the cabinets are to be hung, cover with 16mm ply on the kitchen side.

    I don’t think I can skim over ply, so should I do bottom half of the wall plasterboard (so that I can put tiles on the wall) top half of the wall where the wall cabinets will be ply?

    when you say fit metal, what do you mean sorry, newbie DIYer here
     
  14. unwokeable

    unwokeable Member

    You would also plasterboard over the ply.
    You would fit whatever is required from these. I always use 35mm for sockets.

    https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_I...dex.html#Single_Flush_Switch_and_Socket_Boxes
     
    bc.alice likes this.
  15. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select


    Check the dimensions of the plywood sheets, if they are imperial sized then do your studs at 16 inch centres, if metric sized do them at 400 centres as you won't have to cut the ply or fix additional studs to catch the edge of the ply, the plasterboard can be fixed direct to the 18mm ply all over. Ply the whole wall kitchen side first, then plasterboard over the ply as it's easier to have one continuous flush face of a wall to work off than have to fight with half inch steps here and there. Metal means use metal electrical backboxes for any switches and points you intend to fit to power any appliances rather than plastic drylining boxes as unwokeable said they are really for situations where you have limited access.
     
    bc.alice likes this.
  16. bc.alice

    bc.alice New Member

    Ah amazing thank you both so much! You’ve been so incredibly helpful!!

    should I still use a hanging rail for the cupboards?

    And I’m assuming I’d be okay to just plaster the living room side rather than ply as nothing will be hung there?
     
  17. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select


    I wasn't specifically referencing your post, just stating that while the opportunity is there to do the best job for the situation and long term kitchen fit why mess about trying to strengthen the existing cardboard wall which won't be as good as new work when it's neither here nor there to rip the rest out and do it properly. The existing studs are probably 32-38mm thick which has a large amount of flex even if ply was to be fixed to it, beefy woodscrews wouldn't make any difference whatsoever if the studs themselves are like matchsticks, tiles are no good on a flexible substrate and if the wall was to be kept thin there would be minimal sound deadening materials able to be inserted unless they used acoustic plasterboard on the lounge side.
     
  18. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select


    Hanging rail is very handy to line units up easily especially on problem walls though if you ensure your new wall is plumb and flat then regular brackets will be easy enough to fit and secure. Skim plaster the living room side then fit the skirting once the plaster is dry. Good luck.
     
    bc.alice likes this.
  19. bc.alice

    bc.alice New Member

    thank you soooo much!!
     
  20. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select


    One last point, you don't need to skim over the plasterboard in the kitchen before tiling, just tile straight onto the board but if ever you wanted to change the tiles in years to come they will come off the plaster without needing to redo the plasterboards a lot easier than if you didn't skim.
     

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