What version of leave is acceptable as leave?

Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by chippie244, Mar 26, 2019.

  1. goldenboy

    goldenboy Super Member

    What this all shows is that the vast majority of MPs put individual career progression and retaining/attaining parliamentary advantage as parties ahead of the national interest.
    chippie244 and btiw2 like this.
  2. btiw2

    btiw2 Screwfix Select

    Yup. Boris described the agreement as a suicide vest that will turn us into a vassal state... but if he can be prime minister? Well, that’s different, strap that vest on!
    Vixere likes this.
  3. Vixere

    Vixere Active Member

    That's wonderful, btiw2, but I think you'll find that you are in a teeny tiny minority. Which is a lot worse than a large minority.

    And, what's more, you don't actually want May's deal. So that makes it smaller than a teeny tiny minority.

    What next shall we compromise on? Capital punishment for some crims? Smoking permitted in some public indoor spaces?
    btiw2 likes this.
  4. Vixere

    Vixere Active Member

    Surely the vast majority of MPs are actually putting the national interest first? Or else they'd have voted May's deal through ages ago and moved on. Instead they are playing the game they have to play - in the national interest.

    Yes, of course they have one eye on their electorate - ie their jobs - but you can't make decisions if you aren't an MP. And I'm also sure they quite like their jobs.

    Boris, of course, has 4 eyes on the job (gettit?)
    btiw2 likes this.
  5. Vixere

    Vixere Active Member

    Yes but. The DUP's 'commitments' you mention are for the benefit of Remainers? How quaint.

    Really, honestly, more NI folk would vote to Leave now than in the Ref? Can you check your figures and tell us where you got them please?
  6. You are talking Allsorts of tripe again Allsorts.
    Heat likes this.
  7. Heat

    Heat Screwfix Select

    Hi Allsorts,
    Yes, the DUP have agreed with every other party in NI to the commitment to honour the open border. Remainers or Leavers there support this.
    The border in Irish Sea (however temporary or permanent, depending on the EU) they don’t agree on unless perhaps a guarantee is given to a time limit. That actually ironically forms part of the Good Friday Agreement, (NI must remain part of U.K. ....) which is being conveniently ignored by some Remainers in rest of U.K. for political mischief, or perhaps just ignorance, plus by SF, but no surprise there.
    So the DUP are correct.

    Also has to be said that Remainers in NI are/were not all Irish nationalists /Republicans, but many were unionists. Therefore those people will likely not be happy with an unknown backstop, as will many nationalists if they are being honest.

    My numbers count in NI for growing support for leaving the EU is just what I am being told on the ground from NI people of a British/Unionist background. Reasons probably no different to what other people in U.K. have said.
  8. Vixere

    Vixere Active Member

    It'll take you no more than 2 minutes to find out what the NI population in general is leaning further towards. And I understand that applies to the UK population as a whole too. Much more reliable than listening to a few folk on the ground.
  9. btiw2

    btiw2 Screwfix Select

    Yes. You’re right. I am in a tiny minority. It’s not what I want, but the aims of the PD are not that bad (I have no idea what we’ll get if the WD passes without the PD).
    I’m married - not always getting my own way is par.

    You must know that your username is literally a celebration of carrying out the death sentence. I assume it’s irony, but who knows.

    Irony et wit - vixere! (Dunno the Latin for irony or wit).
  10. Odd Bodkin

    Odd Bodkin Active Member

    It does have a green hue around the gills but i think calling it 'a rant' is a bit strong.

    The DUP have been a blight on Ulster for many years but just take a look at their recent history regarding the Housing Fraud scandal, that led to a complete breakdown of trust in Stormont. There's plenty of evidence they also colluded with the Brexit campaigners, and they continue to defy the majority in Ulster who voted to remain within the EU.
    Sinn Fein support those remainers who're being denied a voice in Westminster by the people who should be representing ALL Ulster, not just the Protestant party.

    The Fenians would dearly love to have a united Ireland, this is true; but Ireland has never been a united island in its history. Ulster has always had closer ties with lowland Scots, long before the Dalriada even.
    To cut a long ramble short; it's complicated - even more complicated than the damnable backstop.
    They won't sign it because the legal clarity of the Bill is not concise and doesn't make it clear how a hard border is to be avoided if/when Brexit happens.
    This is deliberately obscure because the govt. wants to keep as many options open as possible with regard to future trade talks.
    Vixere likes this.
  11. btiw2

    btiw2 Screwfix Select

    No WA for me.
  12. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    I bought up the problem of the Irish border many times and the leavers all poopooed me and said it wasn't an issue at all. :cool::cool::cool:
    Vixere and btiw2 like this.
  13. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    Well that's the WA voted down for a third time.
  14. btiw2

    btiw2 Screwfix Select

    C'mon then Nostradamus (I mean that without too much sarcasm).
    Any predictions on what happens next?
    I have no idea where we go next (and preserve any semblance of democratic legitimacy[1]).

    [1] even another referendum which remain wins effectively ignores a huge minority, meaning a different flavour of tyranny of the majority.
  15. btiw2

    btiw2 Screwfix Select

    Vixere is Allsorts is DA?
    Is there a table where you can look these things up?
    Who's greenback?
  16. Vixere

    Vixere Active Member

    Not irony; ignorance. I thought it meant summat different.

    AH-HA! You ADMIT May's deal is NOT what you want even though you claimed it was! Oh, maaaaaaan - I'm going to milk this for positively seconds.

    I - up until recently - have given May a lot of credit for genuinely trying to do the 'right thing'; the delicate/impossible balance betwixt honouring the dishonourable ref result, and saving our country. But now she's simply gone mad.

    Bitter and mad.
    btiw2 likes this.
  17. Vixere

    Vixere Active Member

    What'll happen? Lord knows.

    One thing you can generally count on, though; Parliament will not countenance a no-deal exit. They won't. It won't happen. (Ok, it might by accidental default, but not via any vote or decision.) I'll tell you summat - even if 'ardent Leaver' (lol) Bo' gets the top job, not even he will deliver a no-dealer. He has his legacy and ego to consider.
    btiw2 likes this.
  18. btiw2

    btiw2 Screwfix Select

    Yes. Of course I admit it (although your post made me chuckle). It was my point. We have to be grown up enough to accept things that are okayish even if it’s not exactly what we want.

    But let’s say there’s another referendum and remain win (hypothetically). Many millions of people have expressed real concern about this country and the EU. Are they to be ignored? In the way that remainers’ concerns were ignored when the boot was on the other foot? Do you believe in Victor’s justice?

    I don’t fear violence if we don’t leave (in some sense), I fear that our country will have turned its back on its citizens. I don’t want that either.

    I think we can agree that this is an effin mess.
  19. btiw2

    btiw2 Screwfix Select

    I know how you like it when I admit that I’m wrong - you can have this one:

    I’ve been away for a while, but on returning and glancing at the forums - wtf is Longs up to?! He used to be (I thought) the one who made skewering arguments. Now it’s just “yeah, but you love Corby” and other spam. Did he have a breakdown, or was he always like that and I was too drunk to notice?

    I’d say he was a Russian bot, but it’s all A and no I.

    Anyway, if you are AS/DA then welcome back.
    longboat, Vixere and chippie244 like this.
  20. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    Longs, or Trevor the Troll as he is now known lost his acolytes and his mojo and probably his paymaster.

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